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re: Generation Kill
Posted on 3/3/09 at 6:09 pm to TortiousTiger
Posted on 3/3/09 at 6:09 pm to TortiousTiger
quote:
seeing as how a few men were brought up on charges because of the book, thats pretty indicative of it's depiction.
again I believe that's false. The men that were brought up on charges had nothing to do with the book, that occurred before the book was written. If it's something else you are talking about, Fick told him to write it like he saw it and acknowledged that publicly. Fick was also denied entrance into an Ivy League grad school because of his "depiction" in the book(a comment he made about killing I believe) and he wasn't mad at Wright, he was mad at the figs at that school for judging something they didn't know shite about.
quote:
when the writer returned to Camp Pendelton for the Marines homecoming, he was asked to leave after someone called him out.
Doesn't seem like this is real accurate either seeing how he is still pretty friendly with these dudes. Him and Rudy Reyes hang out all the time(according to Reyes). Apparently you didn't see the publicity the show brought to the characters but they were all seen together and even interviewed at a round table and no one made it sound like there were any hard feelings towards Evan Wright. Also I hate to name drop and I've never done it before but I have met and talked with Tony "Poke" Espera on more than one occasion and he is very proud of this story. He'll tell anyone that's willing to listen about a lot of the accounts.
1
Posted on 3/3/09 at 6:21 pm to Michael J Cocks
quote:
again I believe that's false. The men that were brought up on charges had nothing to do with the book, that occurred before the book was written
no. they were brought up on charges as a direct result of what Wright had written.
Contrary to what the lay person believes, we arent some half retarded comic book characters.
quote:
Fick was also denied entrance into an Ivy League grad school because of his "depiction"
not true. he got into harvard after they asked him if he felt he needed to explain what Wright haw written. He told them he didnt need to explain himself, they let him in.
I spoke to Fick last summer about it.
quote:
Tony "Poke" Espera on more than one occasion and he is very proud of this story.
It's cool to have a character about you, but it still doesnt make it professional. I havent spoken to Espera since I got out, but I spent two years with him. Where did you talk to him at?
ETA:
"Sergeant Espera, who is Native American and Latino, was removed from his normal military assignment for comments he made to Mr. Wright about civilian casualties and the white man's "manifest destiny."
"My C.O. said, `After reading the article, I perceive you as a coward,' " Sergeant Espera said. "I was upset. The feeling around the battalion was I was a militant racist." He denies being a racist, and in the book Mr. Wright describes Sergeant Espera's evident closeness with his fellows, who are mostly white."
Espera was always spouting shite about race, but it never really bothered anyone. When Wright pigeonholed him into "that guy" thats when it became a problem.
Wright did that a lot with all these nicknames he gave.
This post was edited on 3/3/09 at 6:37 pm
Posted on 3/3/09 at 6:35 pm to TortiousTiger
quote:
Where did you talk to him at?
we worked for the same contractor. I ran across him in the box a few times and in North Carolina once ironically.
quote:
Contrary to what the lay person believes, we arent some half retarded comic book characters.
I don't see why you are getting offended. And am I mistaken, but where you in the book? Because you said "We"? And you're acting like you're the only person that's ever served. I myself spent 3 years and some change in combat zones and I know first hand the shite that goes on, this show/book hit the nail a lot closer than anything else I've ever seen.
quote:
not true. he got into harvard after they asked him if he felt he needed to explain what Wright haw written. He told them he didnt need to explain himself, they let him in.
I spoke to Fick last summer about it.
well I'll have to take your word for it but from what I remember reading I could have swore he refused to explain himself and they didn't let him in. But admittedly, I just read his account I don't know him personally.
ETA: I thought he got turned down at Dartmouth and later accepted to Harvard Business School for his MBA.
quote:
It's cool to have a character about you, but it still doesnt make it professional.
See, I have no idea what this even means. These aren't fictional characters. These are real people who when asked how accurate the accounts in this story are on a scale of 1-10, they all replied "TEN" in unison. Can I ask you what they did that you consider so unprofessional?
This post was edited on 3/3/09 at 6:44 pm
Posted on 3/3/09 at 6:40 pm to Michael J Cocks
quote:
refused to explain himself and they didn't let him in
He has since already graduated and works in DC
quote:
These aren't fictional characters
in the book, they pretty much are.
when your star of the book is called "iceman," thats pretty sensationalistic.
quote:
I don't see why you are getting offended.
I'm not, i'm just explaining how the book comes across.
While likely less entertaining to a layperson, Fick's book tells a much truer story.
Posted on 3/3/09 at 6:50 pm to TortiousTiger
quote:
While likely less entertaining to a layperson, Fick's book tells a much truer story.
Oh I agree a million percent(and it's a truer story from a soldiers perspective), hence why I said after one watches Gen Kill they will be looking to read this book. And a lot of Fick's accounts match Write's. Some of them Fick admits he saw in a blur and also said that 5 men in the same vehicle are gonna see something 5 different ways. That's why I find it interesting to hear the perspective of a civilian who had never witnessed combat or chaos like this. He had a vantage point for something most people will never understand....it's cool to see how he saw it.
quote:
when your star of the book is called "iceman," thats pretty sensationalistic.
yeah kind of corny, but I think he felt it important to describe the coolness of Colbert. He earned that name in Afghanistan and I guess that's probably the way he(Wright) came to see Colbert and wanted the readers to see him sort of the same way.
quote:
He has since already graduated and works in DC
Yeah I just saw that, but didn't he say in "1BA" that it was another Ivy League school that didn't accept him and he later got accepted to Harvard?
This post was edited on 3/3/09 at 6:53 pm
Posted on 3/3/09 at 6:53 pm to Michael J Cocks
quote:
hell yes. Probably the highlight of the summer of 2008. And once you watch the series you will want to read every book you can find to continue getting to know the characters.
Yep. I saw the miniseries, then I read Generation Kill, and I'm almost finished One Bullet Away.
Posted on 3/3/09 at 7:01 pm to Ed Osteen
If you watch it listening through headphones, some of the shite that is said in the background is fricking hilarious.
Posted on 3/3/09 at 7:06 pm to Michael J Cocks
See, I read the back and forth between you 2 guys - both presumably at least somewhat in the know - and I come away entirely confused. When I watched the show, I remember thinking every line sounded absurdly perfect and scripted, so there's no way that could be real. But then Cocks says it's true. I don't know what to think.
Posted on 3/3/09 at 7:09 pm to Hideo Nomo
quote:
Probably the highlight of the summer of 2008. And once you watch the series you will want to read every book you can find to continue getting to know the characters.
true
Posted on 3/3/09 at 7:13 pm to Tiger JJ
quote:
When I watched the show, I remember thinking every line sounded absurdly perfect and scripted, so there's no way that could be real. But then Cocks says it's true. I don't know what to think.
I'm just saying it's not as sensationalized as he's saying. As far as the dialogue, Wright just copied word for word what these guys were saying, I don't think he added a lot to it. As far as the scenes, again I reiterate he is showing it from his perspective and then add some hollywood bells and whistles...this is what you get.
Keep in mind, how it's perceived, doesn't make it inaccurate. I tried to watch it as someone that hadn't been to Iraq and then compared it to what I'd experienced and it gave me chills, that's all I'm saying. Also they traveled a bit of a different Iraq than I did, the initial invasion held a lot of mystery, not just for Wright, but also the Marines. That's another aspect that makes this story so awesome/interesting for me.
This post was edited on 3/3/09 at 7:19 pm
Posted on 3/3/09 at 7:27 pm to TortiousTiger
quote:
seeing as how a few men were brought up on charges because of the book, thats pretty indicative of it's depiction.
quote:
Consequences for the Marines
Sergeant Espera was forced to leave the battalion, SSgt. Eric Kocher was disciplined for his actions in retrieving a fellow Marine who was wounded after stepping on a landmine, and one Marine's promotion from corporal to sergeant was canceled as a direct result of the publication of the original articles.[2]
Posted on 3/3/09 at 7:35 pm to USMCTiger03
quote:
Consequences for the Marines
Sergeant Espera was forced to leave the battalion, SSgt. Eric Kocher was disciplined for his actions in retrieving a fellow Marine who was wounded after stepping on a landmine, and one Marine's promotion from corporal to sergeant was canceled as a direct result of the publication of the original articles.[
see, must have been pretty accurate.
and supposedly Espera wanted to leave the battalion anyway.
Also the incident with Captain America(beating the prisoner), then Kocher and someone else got punished(during the invasion)....that shite was real and I think necessary to show how fricking stupid some guys are and how someone else takes the fall for it. I guess the other incident of Kocher you speak of was because he yelled at a superior about which direction they needed to go to get the wounded back to the FOB
This post was edited on 3/3/09 at 7:39 pm
Posted on 3/3/09 at 7:45 pm to Michael J Cocks
quote:The depiction of some of the dumbasses and the politics at the upper echelons was pretty damned accurate. IMHO.
that shite was real and I think necessary to show how fricking stupid some guys are and how someone else takes the fall for it.
Posted on 3/3/09 at 8:13 pm to USMCTiger03
Was that one guy really not over the top? The one who would just run around and scream randomly?
Posted on 3/3/09 at 8:17 pm to Tiger JJ
quote:
Was that one guy really not over the top? The one who would just run around and scream randomly?
Do you mean the Sgt Major? Because by most accounts that's exactly how he was. In "One Bullet Away" Fick tells how he got the title "The Coward of Khafji" during Desert Storm
Posted on 3/3/09 at 8:29 pm to Michael J Cocks
That must be the one. To an outsider, it really just seemed like it was impossible for a person to have been that way.
Posted on 3/3/09 at 8:40 pm to Michael J Cocks
quote:
Do you mean the Sgt Major? Because by most accounts that's exactly how he was. In "One Bullet Away" Fick tells how he got the title "The Coward of Khafji" during Desert Storm
He has to mean Captain America. I think that role was played a little over the top, but then again it's hard to tell based on the text of the book and it was entertaining regardless.
Posted on 3/3/09 at 8:49 pm to Hideo Nomo
quote:
He has to mean Captain America. I think that role was played a little over the top, but then again it's hard to tell based on the text of the book and it was entertaining regardless.
yeah I guess he was, I was thinking he meant how the Sgt Major just popped up and started to yelling about shite........I'm sure Captain America wasn't as retarded acting as they made him look but there had to be some merit there.
Posted on 3/3/09 at 9:08 pm to Michael J Cocks
quote:
I'm sure Captain America wasn't as retarded acting as they made him look but there had to be some merit there.
So how overdone do you think it was? It seemed utterly caricaturish to me. Does fragging exist in real life? Seems like someone like that would be a candidate.
Posted on 3/3/09 at 9:15 pm to Hideo Nomo
i just went out and bought it. ill put it in once nip tip is over!!!! 
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