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The Urban Meyer Situation is NOT a Title IX Issue

Posted on 8/3/18 at 2:22 am
Posted by MidnightVibe
Member since Feb 2015
7885 posts
Posted on 8/3/18 at 2:22 am
Title IX provides as follows:

quote:

No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance,


So, does an assistant football coach at a public university beating his wife at home qualify as an "education program or activity"?

Under a common sense analysis, of course it doesn't. An interpretation of Title IX that includes private activities at home by university employees involving an individual who is neither a university employee nor student would be the strained textual reading of the century.

But don't take my word for it. There is actual precedent on this. Mike Macyntire out of Colorado was sued under the auspices of Title IX by the wife of one of his assistant coaches on the grounds that Macyntire had knowledge of the abuse, was required to report it under Title IX, and didn't. A federal judge flatly concluded that Macyntire had no duty under Title IX to report this to anybody:

quote:

"Tumpkin's actions took place outside the scope of his position with the university ... The tortious contact which [Fine] alleges Tumpkin inflicted upon her in no way depended on his position as a coach with the university in order to be carried out. Absent a special relationship between them and [Fine], therefore, [the defendants] are not liable for a failure to act in response to [Fine's] complaints ... The law does not always require that people with knowledge of bad acts take action."


This is the EXACT same situation as the one currently involving Meyer. Now, this ruling is not binding precedent on a federal judge in Ohio, but it would be considered very persuasive authority, and I can't imagine a federal judge arriving at a different conclusion.

"But but but," you might be saying, "what about the contractual provision that was added to Meyer's most recent contract extension. Doesn't that put him on the hook?"

No, dumbases, he signed that contract in 2018. Which means that the contract he had in place in 2015 DID NOT have that provision. And so he was under no contractual obligation to report anything to the university about whatever happened in 2015. And, no, it can't be applied retroactively. That's goddamn absurd.

Moreover, the language of the added provision, while not being worded with great precision, arguably is arguably coextensive in scope with what is required under Title IX itself.

quote:

Failure by Coach to promptly report to Ohio State’s Deputy Title IX Coordinator — Athletics or Ohio State’s Title IX Coordinator any known violations of Ohio State’s Sexual Misconduct Policy (including, but not limited to, sexual harassment, sexual assault, sexual exploitation, intimate violence and stalking) that involve any student, faculty, or staff or that is in connection with a university sponsored activity or event. For purposes of this section ... a “known violation” shall mean a violation or an allegation of a violation of Title IX that Coach is aware of or has reasonable cause to believe is taking place or may have taken place.


And if my interpretation of that is correct -- and I'm pretty confident that it is -- then the added provision in his 2018 extension adds no additional duties that aren't required by Title IX -- and thus fails to apply to Meyer in this situation for the exact reasons articulated above by the CO federal judge.



Posted by MidnightVibe
Member since Feb 2015
7885 posts
Posted on 8/3/18 at 2:30 am to
Here is the full text of the CO judge dismissing the action against Macintyre: LINK

Also, I spelled Macintyre incorrectly several times in the OP. Oopsie.
Posted by Mr. Elvert
Dallas
Member since Oct 2012
14974 posts
Posted on 8/3/18 at 2:49 am to
Seems logical. If OSU fires him it’ll be expensive
Posted by emanresu
Member since Dec 2009
9354 posts
Posted on 8/3/18 at 4:00 am to
His 2015 contract had the following language:

quote:

Know, recognize and comply with all federal, state and local
laws, as well as ail applicable University Rules
and
Governing Athletic Rules, in accordance with NCAA Bylaw
1 1 .1 .2.1 , promote an atmosphere for compliance within the
football program supervised by Coach and monitor the
activities regarding compliance of all assistant coaches and
other administrators involved with the program who report
directly or indirectly to Coach; supervise and take
appropriate steps in an effort to ensure that Coach's
assistant coaches, any other employees for whom Coach is
administratively responsible and the members of the Team
know, recognize and comply with all such laws, University
Rules and Governing Athletic Rules; and immediately report
to the Director and to the Department's Office of Compliance
Services in writing if any person or entity, including without
limitation, representatives of Ohio State's athletic interests,
has violated or is likely to violate or may potentially have
violated any such laws, University Rules
and Governing
Athletic Rules (unless Ohio State has informed Coach that
certain minor transgressions do not require written reports to
the Director and the Department's Office of Compliance
Services). Coach shall cooperate fully with the Department's
Office of Compliance Services at all times. Coach shall
review and approve in writing all requests for expense
reimbursements by assistant football coaches prior to
submission to Ohio State in an effort to ensure accuracy and
compliance with all such laws, University Rules and
Governing Athletic Rules, and upon such satisfactory review,
shall forward the same to Ohio State with his approval for
payment.


Beating your wife is, at minimum, a violation of state criminal law. ("University Rules" would almost undoubtedly prohibit criminal assault by employees as well, but we don't even have to go there.) Since the dude was arrested, Meyer knew that his employee "may have potentially violated" a state law, and therefore had a duty to report it under the plain language of the contract,since it was in effect during the 2015 incident. Title IX interpretations are moot.

Also note that the unqualified and unambiguous use of the words "any" and "all" in the provision make clear that his duty to report extended well beyond the circumscribed area of sports-related violations.

So while it may well be that this does not implicate a federal issue, he still had a duty to report.
This post was edited on 8/3/18 at 3:35 pm
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
70838 posts
Posted on 8/3/18 at 6:02 am to
quote:

Meyer knew


Link?

Posted by TideSaint
Hill Country
Member since Sep 2008
75835 posts
Posted on 8/3/18 at 6:16 am to
Link that he didn't?

Posted by starsandstripes
Georgia
Member since Nov 2017
11897 posts
Posted on 8/3/18 at 6:16 am to
That's a lot of effort to show that you're wrong.
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
70838 posts
Posted on 8/3/18 at 6:22 am to
That's not how it works.
Posted by starsandstripes
Georgia
Member since Nov 2017
11897 posts
Posted on 8/3/18 at 6:26 am to
"On December 10, 2016, MacIntyre informed Plaintiff that he had contacted Athletic Director George (his direct supervisor) and the two had set up a meeting to discuss Plaintiff's concerns."
Posted by Buster180
Member since Jun 2017
1455 posts
Posted on 8/3/18 at 6:34 am to
quote:

he had contacted Athletic Director George (his direct supervisor)


I cannot believe this story is getting passed around by Ohio State fans as "see! this happened in Colorado and he is still coaching!".
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
70838 posts
Posted on 8/3/18 at 6:38 am to
quote:

After hearing about the alleged abuse on Dec. 9, 2016, during an emotional, 34-minute phone conversation with the alleged victim, MacIntyre responded by informing his athletic director, Rick George, of the allegation; by blocking the alleged victim’s number from his phone; by sharing the allegation with the alleged abuser, safeties coach Joe Tumpkin; and by giving Tumpkin the phone number for the football program’s go-to defense attorney. “[The alleged victim] told me [Tumpkin] needs to get help—that was her thought,” MacIntyre told investigators. “My whole thing was to get a lawyer.”

quote:

"I believe he did," Courtney responded.


Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
70838 posts
Posted on 8/3/18 at 6:40 am to
quote:

I cannot believe this story is getting passed around by Ohio State fans as "see! this happened in Colorado and he is still coaching!".


Totally. He might have done everything else the wrong way, but at least he told his athletic director.
Posted by starsandstripes
Georgia
Member since Nov 2017
11897 posts
Posted on 8/3/18 at 6:41 am to
quote:

DisplacedBuckeye


You are maxxed out on panic right now, aren't you? Be honest.

Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
70838 posts
Posted on 8/3/18 at 6:42 am to
quote:

You are maxxed out on panic right now, aren't you? Be honest.


Not at all, because no matter what happens, we won't be stuck with Miles or Orgeron.
Posted by LukeSidewalker
Mobile, Alabama
Member since Dec 2012
8417 posts
Posted on 8/3/18 at 6:43 am to
The real question is, can Urbans heart take the pressure of the current accusations?

Posted by 32footsteps
Member since Oct 2017
268 posts
Posted on 8/3/18 at 6:47 am to
I wouldn’t be so quick to be convinced it isn’t.

I’ve lurked on this site for many years but this is my first contribution....take it for what it’s worth.

Ive worked on college campuses and have done Title IX investigations, I’ve developed training programs on mandatory reporting, and have worked with compliance issues as they specifically apply to sexual misconduct policies.

The Sexual Misconduct policy at tOSU is broadened to include sexual assault, sexual harassment, and relationship violence. That policy was put into place so that the university was compliant under a Title IX. What you have cited directly from the federal statute is a bare bones minimum. Over the years more and more things have been shoved under a Title IX umbrella and it is not exclusive to equality in women’s athletics. That’s what most assume it addresses but in reality it goes much, much farther than that.

Anyway...at tOSU the Sexual Misconduct policy is maintained by their Title IX office. That policy is pretty well defined as to who mandatory reporters are and who is covered by those guidelines. The entire university community falls under this thing,,,students, academic staff, non academic staff, hourly employees, etc. Zach Smith was employed by tOSU which makes him a member of that community. Additionally, the policy has the objective to make the campus environment a safe working and learning environment. If others within that community (other coaches, female staff, etc) are subjected to someone in their midst who makes them feel threatened this policy can and should be applied. Shelley Meyer stated in one of her texts: “He scares me.” Shelley Meyer is employed by tOSU. By having Z. Smith as a member of that same community Shelley Meyer is in an environment that she feels might not be safe. His presence denies her the benefit of working in a safe environment.

The 1972 verbiage which you cite is in some ways like the US Constitution and the sexual misconduct policy is an amendment. You can’t refer to only the constitution and claim that women are not allowed to vote because it is not written in the constitution itself, we all know better that there is an amendment giving women that right.

Based on my experience working in higher ed on these issues I firmly believe that there are Title IX issues at play but I’d bet my last dollar that there is a ton of lawyering being done right now to find a loophole around this stuff. I haven’t even addressed the mandatory reporting angle. That can become overly complicated but it boils down to this....anyone who was aware of these accusations was/is a mandatory reporter if they were employed by tOSU. That too falls under the sexual misconduct policy at that place which, as I said, is maintained by the Title IX office at tOSU.
Posted by starsandstripes
Georgia
Member since Nov 2017
11897 posts
Posted on 8/3/18 at 6:55 am to
McIntyre case was about negligence. The Meyer issue is about getting fired. Also the university hired two firms to look at the circumstances and did find that McIntyre failed to follow university policy and he was punished for that, even though he did inform his boss.

I understand anger toward Title IX. But I don't think that will really help in analyzing this Meyer issue and I don't think the McIntyre case is all that informative.
Posted by castorinho
13623 posts
Member since Nov 2010
82010 posts
Posted on 8/3/18 at 7:05 am to
None of that has anything to do with the OP's subject. Try to keep up
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
70838 posts
Posted on 8/3/18 at 7:09 am to
quote:

McIntyre case was about negligence. The Meyer issue is about getting fired.




You don't also think MacIntyre's job was in question?
Posted by MidnightVibe
Member since Feb 2015
7885 posts
Posted on 8/3/18 at 7:11 am to
quote:

Beating your wife is, at minimum, a violation of state criminal law. ("University Rules" would almost undoubtedly prohibit criminal assault by employees as well, but we don't even have to go there.) Since the dude was arrested, Meyer knew that his employee "may have potentially violated" a state law, and therefore had a duty to report it under the plain language of the contract,since it was in effect during the 2015 incident. Title IV interpretations are moot.

Also note that the unqualified and unambiguous use of the words "any" and "all" in the provision make clear that his duty to report extended well beyond the circumscribed area of sports-related violations.

So while it may well be that this does not implicate a federal issue, he still had a duty to report.


He was arrested in 2015? News to me.

And in the absence of that, none of what you bolded applies. Because, no, he had no way of knowing whether the stuff that went on in that household behind closed doors constituted criminal assault. He's neither an attorney nor a private investigator.
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