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re: The ATL Thread: Offseason Edition

Posted on 2/18/12 at 5:40 pm to
Posted by OBUDan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40723 posts
Posted on 2/18/12 at 5:40 pm to
quote:

There is not a single stat that gives me, or anyone, any reason to believe that he won't return to his normal self this year.


Players with low walk rates don't generally sustain high batting averages. Michael Young is the only current guy I can think of that walks as little as Prado and sustains a really high BA.

So his entire value is based on his ability to make contact, because he doesn't have speed, he doesn't have power and he doesn't draw walks...

quote:

Heck, all anyone needs to do is compare his career BABIP to last year's. But hey, what do I know?


High BABIPs often indicate a hitter who has been lucky, unless that hitter is a speedster. So players like Bourn, Ichiro etc. typically will sport a higher BABIP because they leg out a lot of weakly hit balls.

His LD rate took a sharp turn down. I'm sure the injury played into that somewhat, but it's also probably his numbers settling in to his talent level.

I suspect he'll hit between .270-.280 with 12-15 HRs this year.
Posted by OBUDan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40723 posts
Posted on 2/18/12 at 5:45 pm to
quote:

We don't fight like you and Dan do.


I'm not fighting anyone. Swamps just takes any slight on Prado personally.
Posted by The White Lobster
Member since Jul 2009
16764 posts
Posted on 2/18/12 at 5:46 pm to
quote:

I suspect he'll hit between .270-.280 with 12-15 HRs this year.

There's such a big difference between .280 and .290. A whole one percentage point.
Posted by SwampDonks
Member since Mar 2008
18342 posts
Posted on 2/18/12 at 5:48 pm to
quote:

So his entire value is based on his ability to make contact,


Which he does at a high level

quote:

High BABIPs often indicate a hitter who has been lucky, unless that hitter is a speedster. So players like Bourn, Ichiro etc. typically will sport a higher BABIP because they leg out a lot of weakly hit balls.


Do you think I'm a newbie to the game of baseball? This is common knowledge.

But I will assure you one thing. Prado was not just "lucky" for the first 1500 PA of his career. He's a good hitter from line to line.

A player doesn't just go from having a .335 career BABIP to a .266. That just doesn't happen. You'll see that increase by a pretty wide margin this year if he is 100%. All I said was I feel confident he is going to hit .290 which is well below what his career average was before last year.

quote:

His LD rate took a sharp turn down.


Which I've already stated.

But in any case, one of us will be right and one will be wrong. We won't know that until it's time for some real baseball to be played.
This post was edited on 2/18/12 at 5:50 pm
Posted by SwampDonks
Member since Mar 2008
18342 posts
Posted on 2/18/12 at 5:49 pm to
Dan isn't my BFF though. That would be Hull.
Posted by auyushu
Surprise, AZ
Member since Jan 2011
9966 posts
Posted on 2/18/12 at 6:15 pm to
quote:

Players with low walk rates don't generally sustain high batting averages. Michael Young is the only current guy I can think of that walks as little as Prado and sustains a really high BA.


Robinson Cano, Placido Polanco, Pudge, are a few more current non-speedsters who have lower walk rates than Prado and have sustained high batting averages over their careers. If you went back through the last 20 years you could find a ton around Prado's rate, it's not that rare. I personally think Polanco is a pretty good comparison for what we might expect from Prado's career (with Prado having a smidge more pop proabably).
Posted by lsu31always
Team 31™
Member since Jan 2008
108128 posts
Posted on 2/18/12 at 6:25 pm to
I can't wait until week 9 to see you two go at it.
Posted by OBUDan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40723 posts
Posted on 2/18/12 at 7:11 pm to
quote:

But I will assure you one thing. Prado was not just "lucky" for the first 1500 PA of his career. He's a good hitter from line to line.

A player doesn't just go from having a .335 career BABIP to a .266. That just doesn't happen. You'll see that increase by a pretty wide margin this year if he is 100%. All I said was I feel confident he is going to hit .290 which is well below what his career average was before last year.


From every year since 2008, Prado's O-Swing% has risen, from 66, to 75 to 79.8 to 80.4 last year. The pitches he is seeing in the strike zone are dropping yearly, based on Zone%.

From my perspective, the reason his numbers declined is partially due to injury and partially because pitchers have caught up to him. He's not a disciplined hitter and he doesn't have a good eye (the percentages back me up on this).

He swings at a lot of pitches out of the zone and watched a lot that are in. Here's a pretty good article about it, based on last year's numbers:

LINK

And I know you, and many, believe it was simply a one year, blip on the map, injury-riddled season, but to me, the fact that he's seeing more and more pitches outside of the zone indicate that pitchers now understand they simply don't have to throw him strikes.

The reason his BABIP dropped starkly is partially because of his injury, but it's also because he's swinging at more bad pitches, and thus, making worse contact... so his LD% drops.

Now, Martin could obviously fix this and become a different player. It will be interesting to monitor his plate discipline stats throughout the year. But my inclination is that he'll be more or less the same player he's been growing into, so his BA will raise above what it was last year, but still say south of what it had been.

And considering that he doesn't walk, hit for power or have great speed, that makes him nothing more than a solid regular.

Posted by Hullabaloo
LA
Member since Sep 2009
15296 posts
Posted on 2/18/12 at 7:13 pm to
quote:

Dan isn't my BFF though. That would be Hull.










tres uno- i will be paying my fees either tonight or tomorrow depending on what time i get home tonight
This post was edited on 2/18/12 at 7:15 pm
Posted by OBUDan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40723 posts
Posted on 2/18/12 at 7:15 pm to
quote:

Robinson Cano, Placido Polanco, Pudge, are a few more current non-speedsters who have lower walk rates than Prado and have sustained high batting averages over their careers. If you went back through the last 20 years you could find a ton around Prado's rate, it's not that rare. I personally think Polanco is a pretty good comparison for what we might expect from Prado's career (with Prado having a smidge more pop proabably).



Good points.

Polanco isn't a bad comparison. His career .332 wOBA is identical to Prado's as well. If only Prado could play 3B like him...
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