re: The ATL Thread: Mets @ Barves

Where would you rank him among first basemen?

C. Davis, Votto, Goldschmidt, Prince all better by a wide margin.

Moreland, Encarnacion better hitters and fielders as well.

Trumbo, Loney, Napoli, Belt, A. Gonzalez, Morales, Swisher and Rizzo all rank above him in WAR.

Loney, Belt, Moss, Morales, and Swisher all with a sub .800 OPS. Those guys are not as good as Freddie.

Votto
C. Davis
Goldschmidt
Prince
Moreland
Encarnacion
Trumbo
Napoli
Freeman/Rizzo

Right around the 9th/10th best first baseman in baseball.

Certainly not pedestrian, but not elite.

I really, really like him. He is a hitter who fits very, very well into our lineup, is cost effective right now, and seems to have great intangible qualities. Does have some negatives though and that's okay. He's a below average defender at best, runs the bases very poorly, and does not hit for much power for his position.

Not enough ABs to qualify for my 1B rankings.

He slides in just above David Wright at third.

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Where would you rank him among first basemen?

C. Davis, Votto, Goldschmidt, Prince all better by a wide margin.

Moreland, Encarnacion better hitters and fielders as well.

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This year the only 1B better than him offensively at the current time are Davis, Votto, Goldschmidt, Prince, and Moreland. He's currently 4th in oWAR.

And the fact that you just tried to act like Encarnacion was a better fielder than Freddie somehow makes me . Dude one of the worst defensive players in baseball at any position.

For the record, Moreland is -1 DRS for his career at 1B in 2300ish innings, Encarnacion is -7 DRS in 1163 innings, and Freddie is +2 DRS in about 3200ish innings. So lets not try and act like there is some sort of huge difference between most 1B defensively, regardless of whatever silliness the fluctuations in UZR from year to year might say. Guys like Votto and Gonzalez are legit great defenders, and Goldy is solid himself, but 1B get so few chances from game to game their ability to save runs defensively is limited.

Freeman is probably not a top 5 1B right now, but if he continues to hit in the .290-.300 range (which he is perfectly capable of given his nice stroke and ability to hit both lefties and righties well) he could very well move up there.

I'd put him around 7th right now, behind Encarnacion due to how awesome a year Edwin had last year. Moreland has never hit like he is right now in his career in the minors or majors, so I have to question his staying power. I think Freddie is better than Trumbo, Napoli, and Rizzo due to his all around hitting ability, a couple of extra runs saved via DRS over the course of a season doesn't make up for the difference in offensive production so far. But Freddie could easily move up ahead of Encarnacion on Moreland and move into the top 5 if he keeps this up and those two move back towards their norm as the season goes on.

Honestly Napoli being above Freddie in WAR just shows me how frigging terrible defensive WAR is for certain positions when it uses UZR, particularly positions like 1B with low numbers of chances. The fluctuations in UZR from year to year are just silly.

bless uou guys

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I guess the only difference is you are a DRS guy and I'm more of a UZR guy. We agree on everything really that you posted. I also used OPS rather than oWAR to judge offense.

Eye test wise, I just really question Freddie defensively. I'm not expecting him to A. Gon over there, but his lack of range really frustrates me.

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Yeah, I've never been a big UZR guy, there is just way too much random fluctuation for players year to year for me to take it seriously (players certainly have slumps defensively, but you don't go from -15 to +15 then back to -15 from year to year like many player's UZR do, DRS is much more consistent over good and bad seasons), plus UZR would try to tell me guys like Prince Fielder are better defensively than Freddie, which I know from watching both play isn't even close to being true.

Freddie has very average range, but he's pretty solid at the ones he gets to, which is why he grades out as average on DRS. UZR just hammers him on his range. Personally, given the small number of chances a 1B gets from game to game I find their ability as a receiver much more valuable than their range, but this is a factor defensive metrics completely ignore, and it's Freddie's best ability defensively.

Freddie is never going to be a great defender due to his bad range, but he's at least average to slightly below average to me. But his defense isn't as bad as the Ryan Howards and Prince Fielders of the baseball world, but UZR would have you believe it is, which is where I take issue.

We won

What a great thing to wake up to. Let's hope some of the other guys in the lineup start swinging the bat well again.

FF