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Started By
Message
re: Jimmy Garoppolo: The Highest Rated Passer in New England Patriot History
Posted on 2/10/18 at 8:30 am to theunknownknight
Posted on 2/10/18 at 8:30 am to theunknownknight
quote:
A GOAT would have been better than Cassel the next season.
2009 team was the worst team in the Pats dynasty era. Teams don’t stay the same bro.
1
Posted on 2/10/18 at 8:43 am to theunknownknight
quote:
Because the drop off from Brady to any other QB on that team over the last 18 years is only 10%
Yea, you do stupid stuff all the time
10% in winning percentage is the same difference as Bill B. and Brian Billick and Jim Harbaugh. One is possibly the GOAT and the others...not so much
Posted on 2/10/18 at 9:15 am to theunknownknight
quote:
And why couldn’t Brady do better than a guy soon to be cut from the NFL in the following years?
He clearly did.
You're out here calculating the mean while advanced analytics sites are available to spoon-feed you this info.
Report back when you understand the game better, then you can post.
Posted on 2/10/18 at 9:27 am to theunknownknight
Jimmy Jesus might be the most perfect person in the history of the world
Posted on 2/10/18 at 9:46 am to brgfather129
BOOM, you shut that anti-TB12 bias crap down
Posted on 2/10/18 at 10:07 am to Buckeye06
quote:
Yea, you do stupid stuff all the time
10% in winning percentage is the same difference as Bill B. and Brian Billick and Jim Harbaugh. One is possibly the GOAT and the others...not so much
But it’s not the difference in Bill B and Jeff Fisher which is a more apt comparison to Brady vs Cassel and 90% of Brady’s other backups.
There are almost two full seasons worth of snaps (if not more) with Brady’s backups playing over almost 20 years. It’s significant playing time across several QBs.
It’s a fact playing in NE is great for QBs. A fact. And Brady being only 10% better is not GOAT worthy.
Posted on 2/10/18 at 10:10 am to brgfather129
quote:
He clearly did.
You're out here calculating the mean while advanced analytics sites are available to spoon-feed you this info.
Report back when you understand the game better, then you can post.
You’re spouting vague mumbo-jumbo as a rebuttal while I, as well as others, have posted advanced metrics and stat comparisons over the last few months to back up our points.
I find that funny.
Posted on 2/10/18 at 10:12 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
2009 team was the worst team in the Pats dynasty era. Teams don’t stay the same bro.
But 2007 and 2008 did?
Convenient.
The fact is - Cassel outperformed him from 2008 to 2009.
Posted on 2/10/18 at 11:31 am to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
Yeah but Tim Duncan took FT to OT, ijs
Dirt calls Tim Duncan 'Daddy'
Posted on 2/10/18 at 11:34 am to theunknownknight
quote:
You’re spouting vague mumbo-jumbo as a rebuttal while I, as well as others, have posted advanced metrics and stat comparisons over the last few months to back up our points
Like their offensive SRS going from all-time great, to mediocre, back to #2 in the league?
Football Outsiders has their passing rank #1, #15, #2 over that same period.
Like I said...learn the game, then post.
Posted on 2/10/18 at 11:42 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
HGH is only going to take him so far.
Don’t you mean kale pajamas and no carbs?
Posted on 2/10/18 at 11:45 am to brgfather129
Dude, unknown knight doubling down on his position like a stubborn MOFO lolz
Posted on 2/10/18 at 11:48 am to ThePTExperience1969
quote:
Dude, unknown knight doubling down on his position like a stubborn MOFO lolz
Been doing it since the Kobe/LeBron arguments in like 2009.
Posted on 2/10/18 at 11:50 am to BayouBengals03
OH shite, the Kobe side I presume?
Posted on 2/10/18 at 11:51 am to ThePTExperience1969
Obviously. And it went on long past the point when LeBron became the best player in the league.
Posted on 2/10/18 at 11:55 am to BayouBengals03
LOL unknown sure likes him some contrarian positions
Posted on 2/10/18 at 12:22 pm to brgfather129
quote:
Like their offensive SRS going from all-time great, to mediocre, back to #2 in the league?
Football Outsiders has their passing rank #1, #15, #2 over that same period.
Like I said...learn the game, then post.
Do you even realize you are proving my point? Or should I spell it out for you?
You’re saying the Patriots defense was relatively worse in 2009, therefore Tom Brady looked worse with a 10-6 record.
When the Patriots defense was better, the back up QB looked better (to the point of being considered for the pro bowl)
So...it is IN FACT, the TEAM that makes the QB look better. You know...which is my point.
FURTHER, it’s also a FACT that the qb rating only drops 10 percent without Brady.
Whereas it drops 30% without Rodgers and Manning and almost 50% without Brees.
You want to talk about SRS and passing rank relative to other teams like it’s a statistical slam dunk without considering the statistical significance that Brees is FIVE times better than his backups (over 12+ seasons with several good backups like Brunell) compared to Brady and Manning/Rodgers are THREE times better (over 10-18 seasons). That’s the definition of statiscally significant.
You tell me to learn football. Well I’ll tell you to learn statistics and relative measures related to football.
This post was edited on 2/10/18 at 12:25 pm
Posted on 2/10/18 at 1:22 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
You’re saying the Patriots defense was relatively worse in 2009, therefore Tom Brady looked worse with a 10-6 record
Where in the discussion of "offensive SRS" and "passing rank" are you getting "defense"?
quote:
When the Patriots defense was better
Not talking about defense.
quote:
qb rating only drops 10 percent
Middle school analysis...did you run this past your colleagues in the teacher's lounge?
quote:
SRS and passing rank relative to other teams like it’s a statistical slam dunk
Not my fault you don't choose to dig deeper.
quote:
considering the statistical significance that Brees is FIVE times better than his backups (over 12+ seasons with several good backups like Brunell) compared to Brady and Manning/Rodgers are THREE times better (over 10-18 seasons).
Brees is totally like ten times better...
quote:
That’s the definition of statiscally significant.
I'd check your definition.
quote:
Well I’ll tell you to learn statistics and relative measures related to football.
If it is between you and I when it comes to mathematics...yeah...
Posted on 2/10/18 at 1:49 pm to brgfather129
quote:
Where in the discussion of "offensive SRS" and "passing rank" are you getting "defense"?
You are using relative rankings to combat actual calculations of NE's passing efficiency which stand in stark contract to Brady's peers. Those same rankings and the inverse of your stance apply to them.
Your argument might hold some water if, let's say the Saints had a 15% dropoff in production = but it was a FIFTY percent drop off. Are you going to say the Saints had a 50% drop off in SRS when Brees didn't play? Of course not. You can't. So what's making the difference? The TEAM, the COACHING.
And having a GREAT defense allows for safer choices and therefore higher efficiency coupled with more wins. What does NE have no matter who QBs over the last 18 years?
Higher passer ratings
More Wins
I am talking about defense because defense affects the offensive playing calling. I'm looking at this from a multifaceted perspective whereas you are creating a simpleton like dichotomy. It's much more difficult to maintain high efficiency and high accuracy when you are FORCED to push the ball down field every game and take chances (which makes Brees' accuracy much more amazing).
Statistically Brady makes the safest throws out of all his peers. He doesn't NEED to push the ball precisely because of his great defenses. He has the luxury of pushing the ball downfield as the defense allows. Whereas - the others are forced throughout the game often having to make tighter throws into the defense. That's one of the factors (besides the O-Line) that contributes to WR separation at the time of the catch - a stat NE blows the rest of the NFL out of the water in. Their offense doesn't have the pressure to push the ball therefore they play and throw underneath more than almost any team.
quote:
Middle school analysis...did you run this past your colleagues in the teacher's lounge?
Aside from the insult - this is the response of a simpleton. 20 years worth of snaps related to 4 starting QBs compared to 25 different quarterbacks spanning 6 teams and about 10 coaches and STILL the pattern is consistent.
There was always a drop off with the backups no matter where Brees, Manning, or Rodgers played, no matter who coached them, no matter the competition or the year. Their output always more than doubled, tripled, and in Brees' case quadrupled the efficiency any other QB behind center on their teams compared to Brady.
Brady can't say that. It is not even REMOTELY close at all. The long list of cross sectioning factors over that long of a time period leading to a conclusion so stark is the definition of statistically significant.
But go ahead and call it "grade school" analysis while you google and look up stats on reference sites.
It's a fact that can't be refuted.
This post was edited on 2/10/18 at 1:56 pm
Posted on 2/10/18 at 1:58 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
You are using relative rankings to combat actual calculations of NE's passing efficiency which stand in stark contract to Brady's peers. Those same rankings and the inverse of your stance apply to them.
Your argument might hold some water if, let's say the Saints had a 15% dropoff in production = but it was a FIFTY percent drop off. Are you going to say the Saints had a 50% drop off in SRS when Brees didn't play? Of course not. You can't. So what's making the difference? The TEAM, the COACHING.
And having a GREAT defense allows for safer choices and therefore higher efficiency coupled with more wins. What does NE have no matter who QBs over the last 18 years?
Higher passer ratings
More Wins
I am talking about defense because defense affects the offensive playing calling. I'm looking at this from a multifaceted perspective whereas you are creating a simpleton like dichotomy. It's much more difficult to maintain high efficiency and high accuracy when you are FORCED to push the ball down field every game and take chances (which makes Brees' accuracy much more amazing).
Statistically Brady makes the safest throws out of all his peers. He doesn't NEED to push the ball precisely because of his great defenses. He has the luxury of pushing the ball downfield as the defense allows. Whereas - the others are forced throughout the game often having to make tighter throws into the defense. That's one of the factors (besides the O-Line) that contributes to WR separation at the time of the catch - a stat NE blows the rest of the NFL out of the water in. Their offense doesn't have the pressure to push the ball therefore they play and throw underneath more than almost any team.
quote:
Middle school analysis...did you run this past your colleagues in the teacher's lounge?
Aside from the insult - this is the response of a simpleton. 20 years worth of snaps related to 4 starting QBs compared to 25 different quarterbacks spanning 6 teams and about 10 coaches and STILL the pattern is consistent.
There was always a drop off with the backups no matter where Brees, Manning, or Rodgers played, no matter who coached them, no matter the competition or the year. Their output always more than doubled, tripled, and in Brees' case quadrupled the efficiency any other QB behind center on their teams compared to Brady.
Brady can't say that. It is not even REMOTELY close at all. The long list of cross sectioning factors over that long of a time period leading to a conclusion so stark is the definition of statistically significant.
But go ahead and call it "grade school" analysis while you google and look up stats on reference sites.
It's a fact that can't be refuted.
Dude, did TB12 knock up your girl or something? You're like really intent on minimizing this dude and the legacy he'll leave as arguably the greatest playoff quarterback and arguably greatest quarterback of all-time, just accept things as they are and chill out bro
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