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re: In case you still think the Mavs aren't soft
Posted on 6/2/11 at 12:12 pm to BayouBengals03
Posted on 6/2/11 at 12:12 pm to BayouBengals03
Chandler factor is overrated, he has been worked in quite a few games this offseason, and isn't called out for it due to Mavs winning their series and majority of games.
Portland had some success, Bynum ate him up, and Miami made easy entry passes for easy layups in Gm-1.
Portland had some success, Bynum ate him up, and Miami made easy entry passes for easy layups in Gm-1.
0
Posted on 6/2/11 at 12:12 pm to BayouBengals03
quote:Possibly, but I'm one of a select few who actually gets it when it comes to this.
You are acting like a moron on this issue.
There's no excuse for two starting 7-footers to average less than 10 rebounds a game. That's pussy ball.
Posted on 6/2/11 at 12:16 pm to Philosoraptor
quote:
I never said he would be top 20 if he wins a title. I said he'd move up a few spots into top 25.
Fine. However, if he's worthy of being in your top 25 after winning a title, then he's worthy of being in your top 25 right now, as he's the same player right now as he will be in two weeks, just as all the other players are the same now as they will be in two weeks.
Posted on 6/2/11 at 12:17 pm to dukke v
quote:
You can say this 1,000 times and I still don't think he will get it. Just saying.
I'm going to say it until I'm blue in the face (which would be quite a feat, I must admit).
Posted on 6/2/11 at 12:24 pm to Philosoraptor
quote:
quote:
MJ
Magic
Larry Bird
Wilt
Kareem
Russell
Shaq
Kobe
Duncan
Oscar
No Lebron James? Top ten? That's questionable insanity IMO.
Posted on 6/2/11 at 12:25 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
2nd highest payroll in the nba. nobody worth a shite around him
What a fricking joke of an argument. The Mets and the Cubs have two of the highest payrolls in baseball.
Posted on 6/2/11 at 12:25 pm to Sophandros
quote:
Fine. However, if he's worthy of being in your top 25 after winning a title, then he's worthy of being in your top 25 right now, as he's the same player right now as he will be in two weeks, just as all the other players are the same now as they will be in two weeks.
Fine. I guess he'll never be in my top 25.
Posted on 6/2/11 at 12:25 pm to xiv
quote:
There's no excuse for two starting 7-footers to average less than 10 rebounds a game. That's pussy ball.
So that's a reason not to cheer for them? They were in the middle of the pack in rebounding as a team during the regular season (14th). There are many "reasons" to cheer for or against any team. I don't think this one outweighs the rest of them.
For me, I'd rather not cheer for the team that is most likely going to win 3, 4, or 5 championships in the next half-decade. What's the fun in them winning in their first year together, with no real adversity? They're only going to get better. As a fan, I'd rather there still be some drama in the next few years as to who is going to win the title. Obviously, injuries can happen. But if they don't, who is going to beat this core on the Heat as they just get a better supporting cast around them?
Posted on 6/2/11 at 12:27 pm to WHATDOINO
quote:
No Lebron James? Top ten? That's questionable insanity IMO.
It's tough to kick anyone out.
quote:
MJ
Magic
Larry Bird
Wilt
Kareem
Russell
Shaq
Kobe
Duncan
Oscar/LBJ
Posted on 6/2/11 at 12:29 pm to BayouBengals03
quote:
What's the fun in them winning in their first year together, with no real adversity? They're only going to get better. As a fan, I'd rather there still be some drama in the next few years as to who is going to win the title.
They'll get a lot of competition next year. No way teams are just gonna let them get to the finals every year.
The knicks might make a big move for CP3. The Lakers can make a big move.
I'd really love for the Spurs to go after Dwight Howard... That'd be epic. frick the salary cap. But it won't happen.
Posted on 6/2/11 at 12:30 pm to Sophandros
I love peoples perception that every player from the past played good defense. Dirk is a below average defender but no much below and a top tier all time scorer. He averages 25 and 10 in the playoffs.
Numerous players that keep getting mentioned as better were actually poor defenders. Barkley, Malone, and Doc J just to mention a few off the top of my head.
Is Dirk Anthony Mason or Charles Oakley? No but just because the popular stance on this board is that white players are soft he gets an exaggerated tag imo.
He's never been hauled off the floor in a wheelchair for a shoulder injury. He has never had to switch shooting hands during the game because his elbow suddenly hurt so bad. He doesnt lay around on the floor for 15 minutes writhing in pain then come back in the game 3 minutes later.
Just sayin', I think its way overblown.
Not directed at you Soph, just the thread.
BTW, figuring if Dirk stays around another 5 years he will most likely be a top 5 all-time scorer. That puts him in anybodys all-time top 15.
Numerous players that keep getting mentioned as better were actually poor defenders. Barkley, Malone, and Doc J just to mention a few off the top of my head.
Is Dirk Anthony Mason or Charles Oakley? No but just because the popular stance on this board is that white players are soft he gets an exaggerated tag imo.
He's never been hauled off the floor in a wheelchair for a shoulder injury. He has never had to switch shooting hands during the game because his elbow suddenly hurt so bad. He doesnt lay around on the floor for 15 minutes writhing in pain then come back in the game 3 minutes later.
Just sayin', I think its way overblown.
Not directed at you Soph, just the thread.
BTW, figuring if Dirk stays around another 5 years he will most likely be a top 5 all-time scorer. That puts him in anybodys all-time top 15.
This post was edited on 6/2/11 at 12:32 pm
Posted on 6/2/11 at 12:32 pm to Philosoraptor
quote:
They'll get a lot of competition next year. No way teams are just gonna let them get to the finals every year.
The Celtics' current group is pretty much done. All the Bulls can do is add a Rip Hamilton type. The Magic are going no where fast, and who knows about Dwight's future there.
quote:
The knicks might make a big move for CP3
I'd like to know how they can afford to pay him enough, or if they can even do it legally with the new CBA.
quote:
The Lakers can make a big move.
Well that wouldn't keep them from the Finals.
Posted on 6/2/11 at 12:33 pm to Philosoraptor
I would start with Tim Duncan
He has ZERO business anywhere near top ten all time. You must be a huge Spur fan for that pick.
He is a great player, but not top ten all time.
I would also take out Oscar. Just my opinion
He has ZERO business anywhere near top ten all time. You must be a huge Spur fan for that pick.
He is a great player, but not top ten all time.
I would also take out Oscar. Just my opinion
Posted on 6/2/11 at 12:35 pm to bomber77
quote:
Dirk is a below average defender
And he's actually gotten better this year, IMO. That could have a lot to do with Chandler's presence. Chandler is to Dallas what Garnett was to Boston in '08.
People act like Dirk is a liability on defense, but that's not the case at all. He's certainly not good, but he's not horrible either. I'd say he's just short of serviceable.
Posted on 6/2/11 at 12:38 pm to BayouBengals03
quote:
Chandler is to Dallas what Garnett was to Boston in '08.
An impact? Yes. An Garnett impact? No, not in stats, maybe in clubhouse mentality/culture change.
Posted on 6/2/11 at 12:43 pm to Philosoraptor
quote:
Fine. I guess he'll never be in my top 25
No problems.
BTW, the "one dimensional" argument holds A LOT more weight than "he doesn't have a ring"...
Posted on 6/2/11 at 12:45 pm to Sophandros
quote:
Fine. However, if he's worthy of being in your top 25 after winning a title, then he's worthy of being in your top 25 right now, as he's the same player right now as he will be in two weeks, just as all the other players are the same now as they will be in two weeks.
There is another way that Dirk can move up on his all-time list. Dirk can play at his current level for a few more years, and his sustained prime can be worthy of moving up the list.
I think the biggest problem with all of these arguments is that, collectively as a message board, we seem to be obsessed with individually ranking players in a team game. Of course, there are many different ways to interpret the worth of an individual. From some (whether it is intellectually lazy or not), championships and clutch matter. For others, it is simply the numbers and production, especially the metrics. The former is definitely advantageous on the surface, such as having Derrick Rose as the MVP, because it seems to be logical, especially for the casual fan. The latter definitely does a more thorough job at extracting the individual from the team to measure their value. They both have their merits and potential shortcomings.
My favorite point from this thread was Sophandros's statement that just because the majority of the people believe something, does not mean it is right (see the massive math thread for reference).
The rest of the Finals should be a fun one, and I hope the Mavs emerge victorious. Either way, I try to prevent my rooting interests from altering my opinions.
Posted on 6/2/11 at 1:24 pm to ThePistol
quote:
Dirk is such a terrible rebounder because he is one of only FOUR players in NBA history to average 25pts and 10 rebounds a game for his playoff career. If only he could rebound in important games...
Still waiting on an xiv response to this one. Did I miss it? 1 of 4 players EVER to accomplish such a feat. Four.
I have no idea why his rebounding has been down these playoffs. It's traditionally gone the other way. He's always, ALWAYS become a much more aggressive rebounder in the playoffs (see above). I seem to remember his rebounding being good against portland, okay against LA, and bad against OKC. He wasn't great in game 1, but he certainly wasn't the mavs problem on the boards. He had 8, which I think was tied for the lead?
I know the mavs played a TON of zone. If you know anything about basketball, you're extremely susceptible to offensive rebounds. There are open lanes to the basket that aren't normally there. Dallas played a lot of zone versus OKC, too. So, perhaps, that's why his rebounds are down.
Dallas isn't soft. They're just not a great rebounding team. That tends to happen when your best 7 footer is a perimeter oriented player. It's geography.
Posted on 6/2/11 at 1:30 pm to Sophandros
quote:
BTW, the "one dimensional" argument holds A LOT more weight than "he doesn't have a ring"...
I never said he wasn't in my top 25 because he doesn't have a ring.
Here's what I said:
-Not in my top 25.
-Could be in the top 25 if he wins a ring or two.
-Or if he maintains the same level of productivity for a while.
The main reason he's not in my top 25 is his lack of defensive presence for being a 7 footer. If he tried a little harder and used his length to disrupt on the defensive end, then he'd def be in my top 25 and probably in the my top 20.
He should be able to rebound, defend, and block a lot better then he does at the moment.
Posted on 6/2/11 at 1:51 pm to Philosoraptor
quote:
The main reason he's not in my top 25 is his lack of defensive presence for being a 7 footer. If he tried a little harder and used his length to disrupt on the defensive end, then he'd def be in my top 25 and probably in the my top 20.
He should be able to rebound, defend, and block a lot better then he does at the moment.
So if he doesn't change his game AT ALL, but his team wins the next two titles, you'd put him in the top 25?
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