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re: Ed O'Bannon lawsuit strikes another blow -SIAP

Posted on 5/10/13 at 11:59 pm to
Posted by bobbyray21
Member since Sep 2009
9490 posts
Posted on 5/10/13 at 11:59 pm to
quote:

*ETA: i just looked it up and specific performance would not be allowed in this circumstance via the UCC anyway


Well of course it wouldn't. It's just a hypo. It's intentionally ridiculous to illustrate that your position is ridiculous.
Posted by bobbyray21
Member since Sep 2009
9490 posts
Posted on 5/11/13 at 12:01 am to
quote:

you're creating a hypothetical that literally could not exist in reality, in a country of laws

it's a worthless hypothet that deserves no response accordingly


Do you understand how hypos work? You keep deflecting.

Take the same hypo, assume it requires a lump sum payment of a million dollars.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
478431 posts
Posted on 5/11/13 at 12:02 am to
quote:

And the UCC owes its existence to the fact that if nonsense statements like "that's the risk you take agreeing to a contract you didn't fully understand." were actually the law of the land, then business could never be efficiently conducted.

why not? and my statement fits in with the UCC. price, quantity, and quality are part of risks and advantages (namely prices, as they are not static). i don't think you're actually reading what i'm saying

those risks are also addressed in the "stuff you figure out" as you put it after the fact. that's kind of where this scenario with the NCAA is, and it makes no economic sense to change teh contract

quote:

In short, your view of contract law was recognized as ridiculous a long long time ago.


actually i was trained by a UCC expert in a way to avoid the "old system" of formality in favor of the UCC

you're just not looking to the functions of how the UCC resolves issues, which is typically the market
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
478431 posts
Posted on 5/11/13 at 12:02 am to
quote:

It's intentionally ridiculous to illustrate that your position is ridiculous.



it's an impossibility, which is the reason why it's absurd
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
478431 posts
Posted on 5/11/13 at 12:05 am to
quote:

Do you understand how hypos work?

yes, and stupid hypothets that cannot exist are useless. they offer no real value to a discussion of the issue

quote:

Take the same hypo, assume it requires a lump sum payment of a million dollars.

i have no problem with this. that business could attempt to enforce that agreement exactly once

do you think a business would really risk its entire existence over a stupid penalty clause? i don't

this is why you look to the market to resolve these issues, and why courts should not interject themselves as godlike figures
Posted by bobbyray21
Member since Sep 2009
9490 posts
Posted on 5/11/13 at 12:05 am to
quote:



those risks are also addressed in the "stuff you figure out" as you put it after the fact. that's kind of where this scenario with the NCAA is, and it makes no economic sense to change teh contract


Elaborate please. Because as I'm reading this, you just contradicted your position completely.
Posted by bobbyray21
Member since Sep 2009
9490 posts
Posted on 5/11/13 at 12:08 am to
quote:

it's an impossibility, which is the reason why it's absurd


"The Alien Test" is also impossible, and it's the best conceptual framework for judging the merits of athletes of which I'm aware.

I use the alien test all the time. I'm sure you've seen me use it. It cannot happen. It's a highly useful hypo.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
478431 posts
Posted on 5/11/13 at 12:09 am to
quote:

Because as I'm reading this, you just contradicted your position completely.

i was responding to your simplistic view of contracts being about price and quality only

i'm talking about judicial power (or what judicial power should be), in the words you used, and related it to this scenario

there are always pink elephant scenarios in every contract. actually, the attempt to list all the pink elephant scenarios are why these contracts end up so long
Posted by bobbyray21
Member since Sep 2009
9490 posts
Posted on 5/11/13 at 12:09 am to
quote:

i have no problem with this. that business could attempt to enforce that agreement exactly once

do you think a business would really risk its entire existence over a stupid penalty clause? i don't

this is why you look to the market to resolve these issues, and why courts should not interject themselves as godlike figures



I disagree with your position here, but I don't wanna argue about contract law anymore.
Posted by jacks40
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2007
11877 posts
Posted on 5/11/13 at 12:12 am to
Just to be clear this thread stopped discussing anything related to the OP like 20 posts ago right?

It's all just legal concepts, hypotheticals, and nothing that the court will actually discuss in deciding this case?
This post was edited on 5/11/13 at 12:14 am
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
478431 posts
Posted on 5/11/13 at 12:12 am to
i have 2 simple questions for you

1. why do you think you (or a court) have the godlike ability to judge whether a contract between 2 private parties (neither of whom are yourself) is reasonable or not? what defect exists between these parties, in your eyes? is this defect consistent among all persons? is there a class of person who is more naturally defective? do you believe that in a system of private parties engaging in private agreements, there can be a single standard of perceived "fairness"?

2. why do you believe that the courts should have the ability to disrupt any contract for any reason they create to shown a perceived unfairness? at what point can we expect a stable canon of contract law?
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
478431 posts
Posted on 5/11/13 at 12:13 am to
quote:

It's all just legal concepts, hypotheticals, and nothing that the court will actually discuss in deciding this case right?

well the legal concepts and hypotheticals deal with the heart of the issue, which basically is boiled down to whether o'bannon (and those similarly situated) is too stupid to just the reasonableness of contracts he agrees to
Posted by bobbyray21
Member since Sep 2009
9490 posts
Posted on 5/11/13 at 12:16 am to
quote:

i was responding to your simplistic view of contracts being about price and quality only


Not a view at all A statement of law.

The UCC takes a very elastic, practical and common sense approach to contracts for the sale of goods. Agreement on all terms are not required. Agreement on price and quantity is required.
Posted by jacks40
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2007
11877 posts
Posted on 5/11/13 at 12:20 am to
quote:

well the legal concepts and hypotheticals deal with the heart of the issue


Ehh I don't think the court will deal with whether or not adhesion should be a valid part of contract law. That sounds like your personal crusade.
Posted by bobbyray21
Member since Sep 2009
9490 posts
Posted on 5/11/13 at 12:26 am to
quote:

1. what defect exists between these parties, in your eyes? is this defect consistent among all persons? is there a class of person who is more naturally defective? do you believe that in a system of private parties engaging in private agreements, there can be a single standard of perceived "fairness"?


The contract includes terms that are:
(a) contemplated by one party
(b) unread by the other party (and would never be read by the other party)

The class of "the other party" is all people who would not stop their car at the gate of the parking garage to negotiate the terms and conditions on the back of the ticket with the guy in the booth. Which is to say all reasonable human beings.


quote:

2. why do you believe that the courts should have the ability to disrupt any contract for any reason they create to shown a perceived unfairness? at what point can we expect a stable canon of contract law?


I do not believe that the courts should have the ability to disrupt any contract for any reason they create to shown a perceived unfairness.
Posted by bobbyray21
Member since Sep 2009
9490 posts
Posted on 5/11/13 at 12:26 am to
quote:

Just to be clear this thread stopped discussing anything related to the OP like 20 posts ago right?

It's all just legal concepts, hypotheticals, and nothing that the court will actually discuss in deciding this case?


Yes, and it's partly my fault, but I officially want it to end. So I'm out.
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