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Started By
Message
re: David Price wins AL Cy Young, Dickey wins NL Cy Young
Posted on 11/14/12 at 8:17 pm to The Seaward
Posted on 11/14/12 at 8:17 pm to The Seaward
quote:
well sure, over all Braves starters, but they didn't have any elite starters.
I can also make the argument that he was more valuable than Dickey. Actually it's probably true because the Mets didn't do dick as a team and Kimbrel saved a ton of games for the Braves that put them in the playoffs. Without Kimbrel there's a chance we don't make the playoffs.
3
Posted on 11/14/12 at 8:23 pm to gatorhata9
quote:
I can also make the argument that he was more valuable than Dickey.
Damn, you dumb.
Posted on 11/14/12 at 8:25 pm to gatorhata9
Posted on 11/14/12 at 8:33 pm to quail man
What a joke. Price over Verlander is probable the biggest joke in baseball awards since Juan Gonzalez over A-rod.
Posted on 11/14/12 at 8:35 pm to TigerBait2008
quote:
So Price had..
More wins
Less Losses
A lower ERA
28 less innings
Higher WHIP
more Pitcher friendly ballpark
and MUCH MUCH MUCH better fielding behind him
No rational argument for Price over Verlander.
This post was edited on 11/14/12 at 8:36 pm
Posted on 11/14/12 at 8:39 pm to gatorhata9
quote:
I can also make the argument that he was more valuable than Dickey. Actually it's probably true because the Mets didn't do dick as a team and Kimbrel saved a ton of games for the Braves that put them in the playoffs. Without Kimbrel there's a chance we don't make the playoffs.
you can use that same logic and argue that johnny peralta is more valuable than mike trout. which proves that is very flawed.
Posted on 11/14/12 at 9:02 pm to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
No rational argument for Price over Verlander.
Oh here we go again with Mr. Butthurt with his horseshite argument of "no rational" for Price to win Cy Young.
Price Wins Here Also
Keys for Price were the degree of difficulty and the consistency with which he performed.
Consider:
* He was 10-2, 2.51 in 16 starts against AL East teams, representing four of the league's top eight offensive teams by OPS (on-base plus slugging percentage).
* He was 13-3, 2.27 in 19 games (and 62 percent of his innings) against teams that finished .500 or better, matching Weaver for the most such wins. (Verlander was 8-4, 2.63.)
* He faced hitters with the highest aggregate OPS, as compiled by Baseball Prospectus, of the finalists, .763 (fifth among AL starters), compared to Verlander, .758 (15th) and Weaver .749 (29th).
* He went seven or more innings in 23 of his 31 starts, the most in the majors. (Verlander did so in only 21 of his 33, Weaver in 16 of 30).
* He allowed two earned runs or fewer in 23 starts, most in the AL.
* He had a 1.62 ERA in his six no-decisions, including two starts when he threw eight shutout innings.
Tampa Bay Times
Posted on 11/14/12 at 9:06 pm to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
No rational argument for Price over Verlander.
Posted on 11/14/12 at 9:09 pm to The Seaward
quote:
you can use that same logic and argue that johnny peralta is more valuable than mike trout. which proves that is very flawed.
I am more in the Yuniesky Betancourt camp.
Posted on 11/14/12 at 9:20 pm to flvelo12
quote:
Oh here we go again with Mr. Butthurt with his horseshite argument of "no rational" for Price to win Cy Young.
Price Wins Here Also
Keys for Price were the degree of difficulty and the consistency with which he performed.
Consider:
* He was 10-2, 2.51 in 16 starts against AL East teams, representing four of the league's top eight offensive teams by OPS (on-base plus slugging percentage).
* He was 13-3, 2.27 in 19 games (and 62 percent of his innings) against teams that finished .500 or better, matching Weaver for the most such wins. (Verlander was 8-4, 2.63.)
* He faced hitters with the highest aggregate OPS, as compiled by Baseball Prospectus, of the finalists, .763 (fifth among AL starters), compared to Verlander, .758 (15th) and Weaver .749 (29th).
* He went seven or more innings in 23 of his 31 starts, the most in the majors. (Verlander did so in only 21 of his 33, Weaver in 16 of 30).
* He allowed two earned runs or fewer in 23 starts, most in the AL.
* He had a 1.62 ERA in his six no-decisions, including two starts when he threw eight shutout innings.
Tampa Bay Times
Yeah and he did all that with VASTLY superior fielding and in a more pitcher friendly ball park. But even if they played with equally good fielders and in similar ballparks just the 27 more innings alone would mean Verlander had hands down the better season.
This post was edited on 11/14/12 at 9:21 pm
Posted on 11/14/12 at 9:23 pm to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
Yeah and he did all that with VASTLY superior fielding and in a more pitcher friendly ball park. But even if they played with equally good fielders and in similar ballparks just the 27 more innings alone would mean Verlander had hands down the better season.
Rays led the league in errors, Rays had no fricking offense all year. He lost three games (2-0, 1-0 and 3-2) because of that. And yea, he got some run support in his 20 wins, hands down better season - yep Price had it.
Posted on 11/14/12 at 9:24 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
Damn, you dumb.
Really? Think about it. He may not have had the kind of innings Dickey had but he is the most dominant closer we've seen in a LONG time. He had as much to do with the Braves making the playoffs as anyone, probably more than anyone on the team. Dickey had a great season but Kimbrel is definitely more "valuable".
Posted on 11/14/12 at 10:06 pm to gatorhata9
Long time?
Soooooo..... Rodney's seAson wasn't dominant? Chapman? Gagne? What is a "long" time?
Soooooo..... Rodney's seAson wasn't dominant? Chapman? Gagne? What is a "long" time?
Posted on 11/14/12 at 10:06 pm to flvelo12
quote:
Rays led the league in errors, Rays had no fricking offense all year. He lost three games (2-0, 1-0 and 3-2) because of that. And yea, he got some run support in his 20 wins, hands down better season - yep Price had it.
Wins are a meaningless stat. Tampa might not have been great fielding but the Tigers were simply an atrocity in the field this year.
Posted on 11/14/12 at 10:10 pm to tduecen
Rodney 0.60 ERA 74.2 innings 43 hits allowed 2 home runs 15 walks 76 strike outs 0.777 WHIP ERA +634
Kimbrel 1.01 ERA 62.2 innings 27 hits allowed 3 home runs 14 walks 116 strike outs 0.654 WHIP ERA +399
Kimbrel 1.01 ERA 62.2 innings 27 hits allowed 3 home runs 14 walks 116 strike outs 0.654 WHIP ERA +399
Posted on 11/14/12 at 10:44 pm to gatorhata9
quote:
He may not have had the kind of innings Dickey had but he is the most dominant closer we've seen in a LONG time.
It is arguable he was not even the best closer in baseball this year.
quote:
He had as much to do with the Braves making the playoffs as anyone, probably more than anyone on the team.
How do the rest of the Braves affect the value of Kimbrel? Making or missing makes no difference on a player's value. Dickey can only control Dickey and Kimbrel can only control Kimbrel. Dickey cannot help it if he was surrounded with a fairly crappy team, while Kimbrel was likely on a playoff team with or without him.
quote:
Dickey had a great season but Kimbrel is definitely more "valuable".
Sure, if you define "valuable" differently than the rest of the population does.
Posted on 11/14/12 at 11:39 pm to quail man
Dickey? lol. what a joke.
Posted on 11/14/12 at 11:59 pm to gatorhata9
quote:
but he is the most dominant closer we've seen in a LONG time.
Posted on 11/15/12 at 3:12 am to VerlanderBEAST
Your name alone makes your opinion worthless.
Posted on 11/15/12 at 5:52 am to Zchlsu
Applause for Dickey
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