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Message
Question re: 401k and future allocations.
Posted on 6/5/25 at 3:56 pm
Posted on 6/5/25 at 3:56 pm
I’m 51 and retired. Current income is military retirement pension plus VA. Have $820k in the C Fund (tracks S&P 500) of TSP (401k). At what point should I start moving to G Fund (tracks long term Treasuries) and what percentage? Thanks
Posted on 6/5/25 at 4:08 pm to Whiskey Delta Actual
Nonone knows you here. You will get advice but keep in mind it is advice that is suited for them. Meet with a couple of people that will act as fiduciaries you can sit with and be able to look them in the eye.
Posted on 6/5/25 at 4:26 pm to La Place Mike
I appreciate that; just looking for input from folks on here - many seem pretty sharp re: $ matters.
Posted on 6/5/25 at 5:00 pm to Whiskey Delta Actual
Why reallocate to very conservative G fund at all if pension and VA cover your expenses already? I consider pension as my safe allocation in lieu of bonds and remain fully C/S and dont see ever changing that.
My bigger concern is taxes and IRMAA when I have to start paying for Tricare for Life/Medicare part B while drawing SS and eventually RMDs. With pension we will always have a sizeable taxable income base so converting from traditional TSP to Roth IRA is going to be necessary to optimize future tax burden. I havent that started yet but know I need to because it's gonna take years to gradually convert without pulling to much in a single year and paying higher rate on part of that conversion. Also rather pay married rate now instead of waiting and one of us get hit with widow penalty later.
My bigger concern is taxes and IRMAA when I have to start paying for Tricare for Life/Medicare part B while drawing SS and eventually RMDs. With pension we will always have a sizeable taxable income base so converting from traditional TSP to Roth IRA is going to be necessary to optimize future tax burden. I havent that started yet but know I need to because it's gonna take years to gradually convert without pulling to much in a single year and paying higher rate on part of that conversion. Also rather pay married rate now instead of waiting and one of us get hit with widow penalty later.
This post was edited on 6/5/25 at 5:10 pm
Posted on 6/5/25 at 5:09 pm to TorchtheFlyingTiger
Good points. I didn’t know about the widow penalty so thanks for that,
Posted on 6/5/25 at 5:31 pm to Whiskey Delta Actual
My intent starting this year is to Roth convert up to the top of the 12% bracket $96950 plus $30k standard deduction. Between pension, part time income, and dividends from taxable brokerage there wont be room to convert much. First couple years after retiring, I had been prioritizing tax gain harvesting at the zero LTCG rate. Then, I saw how much my parents pay for IRMAA and it opened my eyes to advantages of getting conversions done early. I'm probably going to have to suck it up and convert in 22% bracket eventually to get my traditional TSP balance low enough. Before doing so, I'll also need to set aside other $ to pay the taxes without pulling it from the TSP balance and triggering early withdrawal penalty pre 59.5.
Posted on 6/5/25 at 5:57 pm to Whiskey Delta Actual
Slightly off topic but have you considered moving out of TSP into an IRA?
TSP no longer has lowest expenses, their user interface and customer service is awful, and limited investment choices (new fund window is excessively expensive). I've meant to move mine but when TSP switched service providers a couple years back there were so many issues w people trying to access their $ I just figured I'd wait for it to settle out. Also, TSP has some strict rules about non spouse heirs and if I remember correctly if my kids inherit my TSP after my spouse they cant do a rollover to inherited IRA but must take a lump sum payout and a massive 1 year tax hit. I dont want to bank on her rolling it over after I die not to mention if we both pass in short sequence due to accident etc.
Another TSP consideration; if you ever contributed tax exempt funds in a combat zone that are sitting in traditional TSP (from before Roth TSP was a thing like I do and I'm slightly younger) The growth is taxable as long as it sits in TSP. But that tax exempt balance can be rolled into Roth IRA (no tax on conversion) and starts to grow tax free. I just havent gotten around to moving mine and dont trust TSP not to dick it up.
TSP no longer has lowest expenses, their user interface and customer service is awful, and limited investment choices (new fund window is excessively expensive). I've meant to move mine but when TSP switched service providers a couple years back there were so many issues w people trying to access their $ I just figured I'd wait for it to settle out. Also, TSP has some strict rules about non spouse heirs and if I remember correctly if my kids inherit my TSP after my spouse they cant do a rollover to inherited IRA but must take a lump sum payout and a massive 1 year tax hit. I dont want to bank on her rolling it over after I die not to mention if we both pass in short sequence due to accident etc.
Another TSP consideration; if you ever contributed tax exempt funds in a combat zone that are sitting in traditional TSP (from before Roth TSP was a thing like I do and I'm slightly younger) The growth is taxable as long as it sits in TSP. But that tax exempt balance can be rolled into Roth IRA (no tax on conversion) and starts to grow tax free. I just havent gotten around to moving mine and dont trust TSP not to dick it up.
Posted on 6/5/25 at 6:04 pm to TorchtheFlyingTiger
Thanks for this thread! I really need to get off my arse and move everything out of TSP ASAP.
More on the TSP beneficiary issue here: MOAA.org
"If a spouse who has a beneficiary account dies, their beneficiary or beneficiaries cannot continue to maintain the account in the TSP. Death benefit payments must be paid directly to the beneficiary(ies).
According to the TSP Death Plan Benefits bulletin 14-4, “These payments are subject to certain tax restrictions and cannot be transferred or rolled over into an IRA or eligible employer plan. In addition, these payments will be fully taxable in the year the beneficiary(ies) receives them. Any payments from tax-exempt money are not subject to taxes when distributed.”
More on the TSP beneficiary issue here: MOAA.org
"If a spouse who has a beneficiary account dies, their beneficiary or beneficiaries cannot continue to maintain the account in the TSP. Death benefit payments must be paid directly to the beneficiary(ies).
According to the TSP Death Plan Benefits bulletin 14-4, “These payments are subject to certain tax restrictions and cannot be transferred or rolled over into an IRA or eligible employer plan. In addition, these payments will be fully taxable in the year the beneficiary(ies) receives them. Any payments from tax-exempt money are not subject to taxes when distributed.”
Posted on 6/5/25 at 7:58 pm to TorchtheFlyingTiger
Thank you for the advice, appreciate you taking the time to write it up.
Looks like TSP fees (.036 for C) are pretty low; where are you seeing lower?
Looks like TSP fees (.036 for C) are pretty low; where are you seeing lower?
This post was edited on 6/5/25 at 8:04 pm
Posted on 6/5/25 at 8:16 pm to Whiskey Delta Actual
Fidelity also has "zero funds" with no expense ratio.
The point isn't these are better but that TSP is no longer the low cost leader it once was and low fees isnt a good reason to stick with TSP any longer.
Posted on 6/5/25 at 8:22 pm to TorchtheFlyingTiger
Thank you for the chart. You’re good to go in my book.
Looks like C Fund has slightly outperformed all of those top index funds. We don’t have kids, so no issues re: survivor benefit issues outside of wife.
Will research what you discussed re: conversion.
Looks like C Fund has slightly outperformed all of those top index funds. We don’t have kids, so no issues re: survivor benefit issues outside of wife.
Will research what you discussed re: conversion.
Posted on 6/5/25 at 8:26 pm to Whiskey Delta Actual
Same tax issue would apply no matter who she passes it on to other than a charity. Just might want to let her know it's best to rollover into IRA instead of sticking w TSP if you pass first.
Eta: I dont know when the above chart's performance data is from so comparison is likely out of date.
Eta: I dont know when the above chart's performance data is from so comparison is likely out of date.
This post was edited on 6/5/25 at 8:31 pm
Posted on 6/5/25 at 8:28 pm to TorchtheFlyingTiger
quote:
other than a charity
Our church will be the beneficiary when she leaves this mortal coil. Thanks for the insights.
Posted on 6/6/25 at 8:43 am to Whiskey Delta Actual
Just remember. The probability of failure goes up as equities decrease in a portfolio.
At 51 you’re still fairly young. I wouldn’t be looking to go in to bonds too intensely as a whole. You still potentially have 30-40 years of inflation and life to make it through.
At 51 you’re still fairly young. I wouldn’t be looking to go in to bonds too intensely as a whole. You still potentially have 30-40 years of inflation and life to make it through.
This post was edited on 6/6/25 at 8:48 am
Posted on 6/6/25 at 9:27 am to LSUtiger89
quote:
The probability of failure goes up as equities decrease in a portfolio
What do you mean by this?
Posted on 6/6/25 at 9:49 am to Whiskey Delta Actual
The probability of “running out of money”, not being able to have adequate money coming in adjusted for inflation, healthcare costs, etc. goes up as equities in the portfolio decrease. One risk you create for your portfolio is longevity risk.
What I do is 3-4 years of income in bonds. The rest in equities. Mostly high bluechip dividend equities. I withdraw from the equities during good times. Then during market/economic drawbacks, I withdraw from the bonds for more stable income and also giving time for the equities to rebound. Also gives for some uncorrelated cash to be able to invest in the equities side when the market is down.
Too many people look at fees when they should be looking at is Alpha, Standard deviation, and sharpe ratio. This doesn’t even include the internal cost basis for the securities they hold, which can impact investors even without them selling their fund shares. They will hurt/kill these things just to say they got the lowest fees.
What I do is 3-4 years of income in bonds. The rest in equities. Mostly high bluechip dividend equities. I withdraw from the equities during good times. Then during market/economic drawbacks, I withdraw from the bonds for more stable income and also giving time for the equities to rebound. Also gives for some uncorrelated cash to be able to invest in the equities side when the market is down.
Too many people look at fees when they should be looking at is Alpha, Standard deviation, and sharpe ratio. This doesn’t even include the internal cost basis for the securities they hold, which can impact investors even without them selling their fund shares. They will hurt/kill these things just to say they got the lowest fees.
This post was edited on 6/6/25 at 10:03 am
Posted on 6/6/25 at 10:06 am to TorchtheFlyingTiger
Good info. I just retired from the Army and looking at rolling my TSP into my 401k accounts.
Feels good at 43 sitting on a pension. Makes it all feel worth it.
Feels good at 43 sitting on a pension. Makes it all feel worth it.

Posted on 6/6/25 at 10:17 am to LSUtiger89
Thanks for the explanation.
Is there a “rule” that shows how much return is needed averaged over time and inflation? I have read about the “4% rule” re: withdrawals but when I do a little math, that burns out in 25 years using no independent parameters such as inflation/fund performance.
Is there a “rule” that shows how much return is needed averaged over time and inflation? I have read about the “4% rule” re: withdrawals but when I do a little math, that burns out in 25 years using no independent parameters such as inflation/fund performance.
Posted on 6/6/25 at 10:29 am to Florida_Man1981
@Florida_Man1981 why not rollover to IRA instead of employer 401k? IRA has more investment choice and likely lower expenses and you can do Roth conversions.
Typically rollover to IRA is way to go. Only reasons I know to move to 401k would be to facilitate backdoor Roth without triggering prorata rule on traditional IRA, rule of 55 access or for better judgement protection depending on your state. You could even roll from IRA into 401k later if desired.
Typically rollover to IRA is way to go. Only reasons I know to move to 401k would be to facilitate backdoor Roth without triggering prorata rule on traditional IRA, rule of 55 access or for better judgement protection depending on your state. You could even roll from IRA into 401k later if desired.
Posted on 6/6/25 at 10:34 am to Whiskey Delta Actual
3-4% is a good “rule”. But it doesn’t work well with too much equity or too much fixed income. Works better with more equity than more fixed income though.
That’s why I do the approach I was talking about. A 100% equities over the last 20-30years shows the highest income withdrawal amount. The problem is in dollar cost ravaging. The systematic withdrawals of income (especially when there is a drawback or volatility) is what hurts the most. Selling shares of equities during downturns and compounding that loss. But a good balanced portfolio that is creating good alpha with as little standard deviation as possible (really as much as you can stomach in retirement). It’s much easier to make it to retirement than it is to make it through retirement. Because just passively taking what the market gives you is not a recipe for success.
What I look at is if I put all of my money in high investment grade bonds what would my income be without principle. Let’s say it’s 3, 3.5, or 4% and that comes out to $100k a year. Then I allocate the portfolio accordingly like I said above and use that for the withdrawal. Moving a month or two ahead in to cash to avoid the risk of the dollar cost ravaging as much as possible also.
That’s why I do the approach I was talking about. A 100% equities over the last 20-30years shows the highest income withdrawal amount. The problem is in dollar cost ravaging. The systematic withdrawals of income (especially when there is a drawback or volatility) is what hurts the most. Selling shares of equities during downturns and compounding that loss. But a good balanced portfolio that is creating good alpha with as little standard deviation as possible (really as much as you can stomach in retirement). It’s much easier to make it to retirement than it is to make it through retirement. Because just passively taking what the market gives you is not a recipe for success.
What I look at is if I put all of my money in high investment grade bonds what would my income be without principle. Let’s say it’s 3, 3.5, or 4% and that comes out to $100k a year. Then I allocate the portfolio accordingly like I said above and use that for the withdrawal. Moving a month or two ahead in to cash to avoid the risk of the dollar cost ravaging as much as possible also.
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