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High fees for Mutual funds
Posted on 2/28/11 at 11:20 am
Posted on 2/28/11 at 11:20 am
I think my advisor put me into certain funds that have high fees. I have NGWBX, TSGWX, and PMLAX. Tell me what ya'll think. I appreciate any feedback on these funds.
Posted on 2/28/11 at 11:26 am to eazyeric23
my average weighted fees of my funds is .1123. As low as .07 and high as .2.
Posted on 2/28/11 at 11:59 am to Chad504boy
(no message)
This post was edited on 11/27/11 at 10:14 pm
Posted on 2/28/11 at 12:37 pm to topstunter
The WSJ had an article (link below)that states the average trading costs for US equity funds is 1.44% this is not included in the expense ratio. There are also other fees that you do not see that are built into these funds. The article was an eye opener for me.
LINK
LINK
Posted on 2/28/11 at 12:55 pm to saint308
(no message)
This post was edited on 11/27/11 at 10:13 pm
Posted on 2/28/11 at 4:41 pm to topstunter
LINK
I have never found a study that found high fees were coupled to higher fund performance. This link references a Morningstar study of fund performance vs fees covering a large time period and range of funds, They found the funds with lower fees consistanly outperformed the high fee funds.
I have never found a study that found high fees were coupled to higher fund performance. This link references a Morningstar study of fund performance vs fees covering a large time period and range of funds, They found the funds with lower fees consistanly outperformed the high fee funds.
Posted on 2/28/11 at 4:41 pm to saint308
I am not a fan of high turnover investments, but the author of the story wrote this very poorly and he is wrong:
The price would likely be closer to the mid-point of the spread buying and the fund would likely receive that upon selling, if not closer to the ask. Then there are the slow learners that put in market buy orders for thinly traded securities and get taken to the cleaners.
quote:
At any given moment, for example, a security may have a bid price of $96 and an asking price of $100. Say a fund bought that security for $100, and the security's value later rises. If the fund decides to sell the security when the asking price is $110 and the spread has stayed the same, the fund will only receive $106. The spread thus cost the seller $4. Over time, spreads can be a significant cost for a fund that does a lot of trading in less-liquid holdings, such as very small stocks.
The price would likely be closer to the mid-point of the spread buying and the fund would likely receive that upon selling, if not closer to the ask. Then there are the slow learners that put in market buy orders for thinly traded securities and get taken to the cleaners.
Posted on 2/28/11 at 4:55 pm to tirebiter
quote:
the fund would likely receive that upon selling, if not closer to the ask.
Why do you say this?
Posted on 2/28/11 at 5:05 pm to Tiger JJ
From personal experience, I have never sold a security at the ask level if a $4 spread existed (which is huge), thinly traded or not. The author indicates the one and same buyer/seller gets skinned at the extreme on both transactions, don't see it happening in the normal course of business.
Posted on 2/28/11 at 5:08 pm to tirebiter
Seems fair to assume both in and out, you will pay something spread wise.
Posted on 2/28/11 at 5:24 pm to Tiger JJ
Yes, but the author assumes the fund buys at the ask high point and then sells at the bid low point, it does not make sense and is sensationalized to try to make a point for the story. I did indicate that it would be closer to the midpoint in both transactions assuming a normally functioning market, not distressed situation.
Posted on 2/28/11 at 5:40 pm to tirebiter
quote:
Yes, but the author assumes the fund buys at the ask high point and then sells at the bid low point, it does not make sense and is sensationalized to try to make a point for the story. I did indicate that it would be closer to the midpoint in both transactions assuming a normally functioning market, not distressed situation.
Oh, I thought you were saying it would be more favorable on the exit.
I think his point is more apropos to private investors who use "low fee" discount brokerages. Sure, a lot of times the fees are low...but the spread they pay more than eats up the difference.
Posted on 2/28/11 at 6:09 pm to Tiger JJ
(no message)
This post was edited on 11/27/11 at 10:12 pm
Posted on 2/28/11 at 7:09 pm to topstunter
Why don't people just use common sense. Assume a 7% real return on public equity, it might only be 4% in the future. Net of inflation you might earn 7% before any other fees, why does anyone willingly choose to go with an advisor who likely adds another 2% in fees, then trading commissions and b/a spreads by high turnover funds of another 1.5%. Where is the return for the retail investor if the real return is only 4% prior to all of the other costs? My advice is to avoid high investment costs, which would mean DIY investing in vehicles that gives one exposure to multiple asset classes efficiently at low cost, just like gazillions of informed DIY'ers do. I don't understand why the article would surprise anyone whose head is not buried in the sand.
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