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Message
re: Goxpocalypse Part Deux
Posted on 4/12/13 at 10:28 am to WikiTiger
Posted on 4/12/13 at 10:28 am to WikiTiger
quote:
Why can't bitcoin be a mixture of currency and commodity?
Why do so many people have a hard time accepting that?
For me at least, the problem is that it seems to be more commodity than currency.
Actually, it doesn't really seem like a commodity. It feels more like a derivative.
1
Posted on 4/12/13 at 10:35 am to WikiTiger
Well let's assume you're right and something can be a mix of a commodity and a currency. It's not enough to say that something can be both; what is the evidence that bitcoin is both? There is none.
Posted on 4/12/13 at 10:38 am to Cold Cous Cous
quote:
It's not enough to say that something can be both; what is the evidence that bitcoin is both? There is none.
Simple yes or no answers will suffice here:
1) Is bitcoin used as a means to exchange value?
2) Is bitcoin used as an store of value and/or investment?
In case you took the LSURussian school of Debate coursework and refuse to be intellectually honest, I'll tell you that the answer to both of those questions is yes. In case you don't believe me on #1, here's a partial list of businesses that accept bitcoin: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade
Posted on 4/12/13 at 10:44 am to WikiTiger
quote:
here's a partial list of businesses that accept bitcoin: LINK
quote:
The following is a list of online and real world businesses that currently accept Bitcoin.
If you are looking for only real world commerce, see here
And the "here" link provides a syntax error and won't load.
Posted on 4/12/13 at 10:45 am to LSURussian
quote:
And the "here" link provides a syntax error and won't load.
Empty map.
Posted on 4/12/13 at 10:49 am to WikiTiger
at the Internet hardass. "I'm going to pretend to pose some questions to you, but then I'm going to think better of it and just tell you what your answers shoule be, then I'm going to puff my chest out like I won some kind of debate. FACT." Look, I really don't care about this enough to get into some drawn out argument. I was just pointing out what I thought was interesting about a cartoon you posted.
Posted on 4/12/13 at 11:00 am to WikiTiger
quote:
Why can't bitcoin be a mixture of currency and commodity?
IMO what makes BC so great as a currency, is exactly what makes it worthless as a commodity. The decentralized and intangible nature of it presents many advantages as a means of exchange, but the volatility of it coupled with its undeniable uselessness in the physical world makes it worthless as a commodity. Much like paper money.
Posted on 4/12/13 at 11:00 am to WikiTiger
wiki, assuming those "businesses" you claim accept btc really exist, how long are they going to continue to accept btc if the USD value of the "medium of exchange" they accept frequently loses more than 25% of its value in a business day?
And since I have not found any exchange which allows hedging the btc's value (options or futures) there is no way merchants can hedge their risk.
Their only recourse would be to exchange the btc for dollars (or for another real currency) immediately upon getting paid the btc for their product or services. And with the time lag I've seen on the exchanges, even then the merchants assume a shitload (that's a technical banking term) of exchange risk.
And then what happens as merchants sell their btc immediately? Btc loses even more value as the volume of btc sell orders increase.
If they can't hedge and they can't sell their btc quickly without creating even more exchange risk, the last resort for them is to raise their btc prices for their products or services to give themselves a cushion against a falling btc value. That, of course, will make their products less desirable by customers. So, sales drop off and they have to resort to pricing in real money again.
I know you won't reply to me, coward, but you know I'm right.
And since I have not found any exchange which allows hedging the btc's value (options or futures) there is no way merchants can hedge their risk.
Their only recourse would be to exchange the btc for dollars (or for another real currency) immediately upon getting paid the btc for their product or services. And with the time lag I've seen on the exchanges, even then the merchants assume a shitload (that's a technical banking term) of exchange risk.
And then what happens as merchants sell their btc immediately? Btc loses even more value as the volume of btc sell orders increase.
If they can't hedge and they can't sell their btc quickly without creating even more exchange risk, the last resort for them is to raise their btc prices for their products or services to give themselves a cushion against a falling btc value. That, of course, will make their products less desirable by customers. So, sales drop off and they have to resort to pricing in real money again.
I know you won't reply to me, coward, but you know I'm right.
This post was edited on 4/12/13 at 11:03 am
Posted on 4/12/13 at 11:03 am to WikiTiger
quote:
Why can't bitcoin be a mixture of currency and commodity?
Now that I'm thinking about it more, why would anyone want it to be both?
If bitcoins are being held for investment purposes they aren't circulating which would inhibit their ability to be a good currency.
Posted on 4/12/13 at 11:04 am to LSURussian
quote:
And the "here" link provides a syntax error and won't load.
He probably forgot to deposit two Bitcoins into the change slot...
Posted on 4/12/13 at 11:06 am to ZereauxSum
quote:Hence their dichotomy of purposes......
If bitcoins are being held for investment purposes they aren't circulating which would inhibit their ability to be a good currency.
Posted on 4/12/13 at 11:10 am to LSURussian
quote:
Hence their dichotomy of purposes......
I just saw your last post on the previous page...beat me to it
Posted on 4/12/13 at 11:10 am to ZereauxSum
Posted on 4/12/13 at 11:24 am to LSURussian
bitcoin was developed by computer and math geeks, not economists
The technology works in a vacuum, but it obviously cant handle real-world market pressures yet.
And it seems to me that the debate centers around whether "yet" in the preceding sentence should be changed to "ever"
In the meantime:
The technology works in a vacuum, but it obviously cant handle real-world market pressures yet.
And it seems to me that the debate centers around whether "yet" in the preceding sentence should be changed to "ever"
In the meantime:
Posted on 4/12/13 at 11:36 am to gizmoflak
quote:Good analysis and well said.
bitcoin was developed by computer and math geeks, not economists
The technology works in a vacuum, but it obviously cant handle real-world market pressures yet.
Posted on 4/12/13 at 11:50 am to Dan
Just catching up here and haven't read the last pages of the thread, but....
What a load of shite. Anybody buying what these people are shovelling? This is pure BS. My guess is they take the "exchange" (and I use that term loosely) down when demand can't support the volume of sell orders to try to keep the price propped up.
This whole Bitcoin thing is about comical now.
quote:
TOKYO - JAPAN - April 11, 2013
Hi everyone, just a quick update on the situation and what happened last night.
First of all we would like to reassure you but no we were not last night victim of a DDoS but instead victim of our own success!
Indeed the rather astonishing amount of new account opened in the last few days added to the existing one plus the number of trade made a huge impact on the overall system that started to lag. As expected in such situation people started to panic, started to sell Bitcoin in mass (Panic Sale) resulting in an increase of trade that ultimately froze the trade engine!
To give you an idea of how impressive things were here are some numbers that we would love to share with you guys:
- The number of trades executed tripled in the last 24hrs.
- The number of new account opened went from 60k for March alone to 75k new account created for the first few days of April! We now have roughly 20,000 new accounts created each day.
Due to these facts we have been busy working on improving things since last week and our team has been working around the clock to improve Mt.Gox to catch up with the demand. We will continue to release several updates today and in the coming few days to improve our system overall performance.
Also please note that we may have to close the exchange for two hours in the next 12 to 24hrs to add several new servers to our system.
Thank you for your understanding and continuous support!
Regards
Mt.Gox Co. Ltd Team.
What a load of shite. Anybody buying what these people are shovelling? This is pure BS. My guess is they take the "exchange" (and I use that term loosely) down when demand can't support the volume of sell orders to try to keep the price propped up.
This whole Bitcoin thing is about comical now.
Posted on 4/12/13 at 11:55 am to LSURussian
To be fair, it is safe to say Satoshi was well versed in Rothbardian Monetary Theory. It might not be what you consider to be correct economics, but it is a branch.
The cipherpunks (Who are geniuses in their own rights) only speculated about cryptocurrency. For it to be implemented the creator almost necessarily had to be an Economist and certainly Satoshi is.
The cipherpunks (Who are geniuses in their own rights) only speculated about cryptocurrency. For it to be implemented the creator almost necessarily had to be an Economist and certainly Satoshi is.
Posted on 4/12/13 at 11:56 am to joshnorris14
quote:Prove it.
it is safe to say Satoshi was well versed in Rothbardian Monetary Theory.
Posted on 4/12/13 at 11:58 am to LSURussian
The limiting of the possible existence of only 21 million BTC is straight Optimal Quantity of Money Theory from Rothbard. I would give you more examples, but I'm on mobile
Posted on 4/12/13 at 12:15 pm to ZereauxSum
I'd say it lacks the aspects of a currency because no one actually has a set bit coin accepted rate for goods and services. How much you pay or receive is always quoted in another foreign currency. I'm not sure that any other reputable currency does that. I think Zimbabwe may.
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