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re: Who's offense are we running, and what is it? (scheme question, not complaint)
Posted on 10/8/12 at 12:11 pm to Scoob
Posted on 10/8/12 at 12:11 pm to Scoob
quote:
But we're now running a totally different offense than we ran under JJ.
What are we running that is so different, except the option? I dont understand how you say its a completely different scheme, as if we were learning a whole new offense this past off season. Its exactly the same.
You didnt watch the UF game? Go watch it and tell me what is different.
This post was edited on 10/8/12 at 12:13 pm
1
Posted on 10/8/12 at 12:17 pm to KG5989
quote:
What are we running that is so different, except the option? I dont understand how you say its a completely different scheme, as if we were learning a whole new offense this past off season. Its exactly the same.
You didnt watch the UF game? Go watch it and tell me what is different.
It's not that different.
Just less option and a few more downfield passes. That's pretty much it.
Some different playcalling, but not a different offense.
Posted on 10/8/12 at 12:17 pm to KG5989
quote:what goggles might those be? If anything, I would expect Les' instinct would be to put in an athlete at QB, one who could create plays under duress. Haven't seen that. Miles is smart enough to know that Mettenberger brings exactly one element to the position, and that is throwing the ball from the pocket. Any broken pass-protection, or even a missed handoff assigment, and Mett is basically dead in the water. Les has never leaned that way in the past. So, something is different.
Yea we ran Flynn a good amount, but he also passed for 3000 yards that year too. Sorry man, take the goggles off. Its Les offense. Has been and always will be
Posted on 10/8/12 at 12:20 pm to XbengalTiger
quote:
Well, if you watch the games and understand football, you would know that our QB RARELY has the time it takes to let a WR work down the fied or do a double move. The few times he has had time to let his WR get down the field and a clean enough pocket to actually step up and make a good throw, Mett has thrown some nice deep balls. OBJ has had 2-3 deep balls hit him in the hands.(obviously the wrong place this year)and Shep doesn't have the ball skills to adjust on a deep ball or he would have caught a couple himself. We are PATHETIC at the WR position. We have NO palymakers and no WR that runs good routes and hand-catches the ball. Add to that that we don't have a 6'4"++ guy for redzone passing and our WR core has looked like a joke.
I'm not going to dispute any of this but I still expected to see more intermediate to long throws down the field on first and second down.
At least giving the receiver a chance to make a play on the ball.
This is not happening like one might expect and some of the reasons you listed could be legit excuses.
However, even when LSU had Lee in last year, Les/OC would occasionally have him throw a deep ball on first or second down just to keep the defense honest, even if the ball wasn't catch-able.
Mett/Les/Stud aren't even doing this in 2012.
Posted on 10/8/12 at 12:24 pm to KG5989
quote:
And has Shephard played any QB at LSU? No
WRONG! Shep played QB for 2 plays against Florida at Tiger Stadium. If I recall, he didn't know the play and called consecutive time outs.
Posted on 10/8/12 at 12:27 pm to Scoob
quote:
If anything, I would expect Les' instinct would be to put in an athlete at QB, one who could create plays under duress. Haven't seen that. Miles is smart enough to know that Mettenberger brings exactly one element to the position, and that is throwing the ball from the pocket.
We have the #1 dual threat QB, and 1 of the most highly recruited QBs, out of high school on our team. What does the smart Les do? Puts him at WR and doesnt give him a chance to play QB for us(except the few plays his fresh year). You cry for a QB that can run and not pass(which is odd). Then you say that Les is a smart man , but doesnt put Shepherd at QB? You're contradicting yourself. But, this thread isnt about a running QB vs a passing QB. Its about the offense we run. Please, go re-watch the UF game before you give anymore input as to whose offense we are running.
This post was edited on 10/8/12 at 12:33 pm
Posted on 10/8/12 at 12:31 pm to PHXTigers
quote:
WRONG! Shep played QB for 2 plays against Florida at Tiger Stadium. If I recall, he didn't know the play and called consecutive time outs.
O yea, my bad. Hes lined up at QB for approximately 20 plays in 4 years with 0 pass attempts. Sure, hes played QB if thats what you want to call it. Let me re-phrase it for people that are sticklers... has Shep played any other position at LSU besides WR/KR/PR and wildcat QB? NO.
Posted on 10/8/12 at 12:32 pm to Hugo Stiglitz
quote:Couple of things might be contributing to this. I think the offense is learning a new scheme; would have been some work to be done even with a full roster (which we don't have). People are missing assignments, whether it be the line, the WRs or the QB.
Hugo Stiglitz
Lack of development in the early cupcake games- I'm pretty sure the offensive coaches didn't anticipate Mett throwing a redzone pick more than once, for example. Or not throwing the ball away against Towson, after fumbling against Auburn. I have to think the gameplan is being adjusted a little to account for the QB not learning from his mistakes.
Posted on 10/8/12 at 12:42 pm to Scoob
quote:
I think the offense is learning a new scheme
Is this your excuse for our offense sucking? We are not running a new scheme. Its been the same for a few years now. Please, i say again, go watch the game from saturday and let me know if you see anything that is different...
And i'll pretend that we are indeed learning a new scheme for the sake of this. So we have a new offenseive scheme, yet when its crunch time and a crucial series or 2, Les reverts back to the same ole crap he always runs. Toss to ford, power I dive right, power I dive left, HB TOSS JUMP PASS THAT TOOK 2 TIMEOUTS TO GET THE CALL IN, slant, skinny post. And thats just IF we are in a new scheme, which i very much doubt we are.
This post was edited on 10/8/12 at 12:43 pm
Posted on 10/8/12 at 12:43 pm to KG5989
quote:I'm not saying "smart Les" OR "dumb Les". I'm saying Les has ALWAYS favored putting a mobile guy at the QB, possibly on the theory that it allows for some mistakes to be rescued. QB can scramble for positive yds on a breakdown. JJ probably gets 20 yds or more against Towson, on the scramble Mett fumbles on. JJ seemingly was the redzone guy last year, even when Lee was still the starter- again the idea being the mobile QB gives you more options on the same play.
We have the #1 dual threat QB, and 1 of the most highly recruited QBs, out of high school on our team. What does the smart Les do? Puts him at WR and doesnt give him a chance to play QB for us(except the few plays his fresh year). You cry for a QB that can run and not pass(which is odd). Then you say that Les is a smart man , but doesnt put Shepherd at QB? You're contradicting yourself. But, this thread isnt about a running QB vs a passing QB. Its about the offense we run. Please, go re-watch the UF game before you give anymore input as to whose offense we are running.
Les is leaving the slow passing QB in this season. Plenty of times against Auburn at least, if not against Florida, that you wondered when "the scrambling QB", whoever that might be, was gonna get a series, because Mett was getting whacked around a good bit. That hasn't happened, and I'm just pointing out- that isn't traditional Miles football to stick with the pocket-only QB
Posted on 10/8/12 at 12:45 pm to KG5989
quote:
Is this your excuse for our offense sucking? We are not running a new scheme.
Even if we are running a new scheme, that's what the off-season is for.
Posted on 10/8/12 at 12:50 pm to Scoob
In the proper scheme, a passing QB who stands tall in the pocket is better to have than a running QB. PERIOD. You do realize you are crying to have a QB like JJ back instead of having a real QB. And, if the answer to all our problems is as simple as having a running QB back there instead of a true QB, why havent our coaches figured this out and tried ANYBODY back there?
Posted on 10/8/12 at 12:57 pm to KG5989
quote:
KG5989
quote:nope, no excuses. chill the frick out
I think the offense is learning a new scheme
Is this your excuse for our offense sucking?
quote:Les' "same old crap" consisted of a shite-ton of QB runs, especially in the redzone. In JJ's case, based around a guy who physically could run. He scored in 2010 on Fla on a busted play most guys lose yds on, and/or fumble. We don't KNOW if Randall can run like that, but we ABSOLUTELY know Mett can't. We also SAW JJ score on a jump pass in '11 (just like Tebow), and we also know Mett can't do that either. Mett likely would hurt himself trying, too; hence the halfback option.
Les reverts back to the same ole crap he always runs. Toss to ford, power I dive right, power I dive left, HB TOSS JUMP PASS
So, unless Randall is physically awful and not anywhere near even the QB JJ was in 09, then we have to consider that there indeed is a different offensive philosophy than in the past. Because now, we aren't seeing players on the field with the same attributes as in the past.
Question might be- how long does Les continue to wait for the passing game to develop, before he DOES revert, and scrap the new scheme? Cuz Mett ain't running a traditional Miles-style offense.
Posted on 10/8/12 at 1:12 pm to KG5989
quote:Here's your problem- I'm not crying to have anybody back there a-hole. I'm making a fricking observation that we're not playing the same scheme that Miles has always favored. Flynn was mobile enough to run (like Mauck was back under Saban). Perrilloux was moreso, and re ran him a lot. Hatch started ahead of Lee and alternated with him until getting hurt, depite being unable to throw 25 yds in the air, because he could run. JJ was favored by Miles over Lee because he could run, and that's why we were still undefeated after playing at Bama last season.
In the proper scheme, a passing QB who stands tall in the pocket is better to have than a running QB. PERIOD. You do realize you are crying to have a QB like JJ back instead of having a real QB. And, if the answer to all our problems is as simple as having a running QB back there instead of a true QB, why havent our coaches figured this out and tried ANYBODY back there?
This season, Mettenberger is the main guy. But #2 is Rivers, who is slower than Mett if possible, and there's been absolutely no attempt to see if the most mobile QB on the roster (Randall) can do anything- provide a spark in tight games, work on a package in blowouts, anything. That is NOT a standard Miles tendency since he's been here. So, something is different.
Posted on 10/8/12 at 1:16 pm to Scoob
quote:
Les' "same old crap" consisted of a shite-ton of QB runs, especially in the redzone.
Because that was the only skill set JJ offered. And dont tell me we ran Flynn a shite ton. We gave him his bootlegs and sneaks, ill give you that, but Flynn also threw for 3000 yards that year. Teams had to respect his passing game so they dropped a lot of people in coverage and left him unaccounted for. Nobody respected JJ passing game at all. Look at the natl championship game. Bama knew he couldnt throw it so they put 10 in the box and the game was over. And if putting Randall in the game to run would fix the offense, why hasnt Les done it? But again, we are getting off topic. Its about the schemes, and its Les. And if his scheme depends on having a mobile QB, why do we have Forrest Gump in braces back there? Its still Les fault, doesnt matter anyway you look at it. If our offense depends on a QB running, why does he have Mett in the game? On the flip-side, why are we running a scheme that depends on a running QB, when we have a tall pocket passing QB that cant run? Either way, its Les call and offense. Has been and always will be. And i reiterate myself again, GO WATCH THE GAME FROM SATURDAY. If you watch it, you will understand that its not Metts fault. Not at all. Mett has the tools to be a very successful QB if we use him right, yet you want to go back to the JJ style.
This post was edited on 10/8/12 at 1:26 pm
Posted on 10/8/12 at 1:52 pm to KG5989
quote:Don't really want to, it's over and we lost. I don't watch replays of games we won, even great games.
GO WATCH THE GAME FROM SATURDAY
quote:This is Les' scheme, one Perrilloux was intended to excel in
And dont tell me we ran Flynn a shite ton. We gave him his bootlegs and sneaks, ill give you that, but Flynn also threw for 3000 yards that year. Teams had to respect his passing game so they dropped a lot of people in coverage and left him unaccounted for
quote:
And if his scheme depends on having a mobile QB, why do we have Forrest Gump in braces back there?
quote:which is why I say it's not his scheme anymore. Last season, having JJ available (his old scheme), let us beat Bama in November. Les then reverted to the old scheme instead of sticking with Lee (new scheme), and it got him to the BCS title game, which he wins if it isn't a rematch with Bama, in all likelihood. Either scheme would have won out after Bama pt 1, but probably neither scheme beats Bama pt 2.
if putting Randall in the game to run would fix the offense, why hasnt Les done it?
So, Les has Kragthorpe online with new scheme. He gives him the offense (meant to be more pro-oriented). Interference vs input- sure, Les will make some calls against fricking Florida, he's played against them (and won) enough to know things that may work. We saw Ware try a pass earlier this season for what should have been a TD, and he's done it before (Vandy '10, I beleive). But for the most part, it's been a different offense than what we used to see.
Now, this is supposed to have Blue with more speed at back, and Faulk at LT. Supposed to have WRs catching balls that hit them, and retain possession when they do.
Blue might have the line less clogged up the middle since he could actually take it outside, but Ware and Hilliard can't do that. Shephard can't go inside at all, so he's not a true RB threat either- at least Ware/Hilliard would have some advantage with the interior linemen, whereas Shephard would be facing SEC speed on the edge without help. Pretty sure most SEC opponents know that.
O-Line as intended, Mett probably has more time to pass (this is for the whole season, not just Florida). He likely would have gotten more comfortable with his WRs, and they in turn would have become better, probably not pressing so much. They might be average, which would be better than what we see right now.
If Les is stubborn as stated, at some point we see the change back to mobile running QB. That might save a game or 2, short term, but we continue with "JJ ball" in the future if it happens. If he's letting the OC run the offense, we likely see more of what we have right now, and take our lumps... with a dropback QB. And hopefully, things come around. Now, why Collins hasn't played at LT is beyond me, but maybe he just doesn't help the overall line by moving. Dunno.
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