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Message
re: The OL is the main offensive problem as exampled here
Posted on 10/12/09 at 10:45 am to bfniii
Posted on 10/12/09 at 10:45 am to bfniii
quote:
he's getting clearly beat man to man on pass plays. that's just a matter of effort. i guess we don't have anybody better to replace him with.
We all try to isolate players and see him getting beat one on one and think he's slipped a little. Here's an explanation.
JJ begins most of his pass plays in the gun. He then takes an additional drop, usually three steps. This brings him to about a normal under-center drop to around seven steps. The tackle's only option is to kick the DE out. If the DE's are kicked out properly and the guards and center do their jobs the QB should step up in the pocket and deliver the pass. By stepping-up in the pocket it affords the tackles the luxury of just running their man around the QB.
JJ takes an additional drop and he doesn't step-up in the pocket. The DE has a field day. Ciron can't run with a DE, because that is what he is doing, chasing the DE not blocking him. And when the QB is that far back the tackle has to take a huge drop step giving the DE more room to maneuver. It's almost impossible to pass block for JJ.
1
Posted on 10/12/09 at 10:46 am to brownjuco
Nope, not even close. The good defenses aren't even rushing more than 3 or 4 many times. Thus, LSU having sacks isn't inviting blitzes or anything extraordinary. The bottom line is the OL is poor and Jefferson has 0 chance most of the time to get rid of the ball.
Posted on 10/12/09 at 10:48 am to Tomm
For the ones who don't think the OL is the problem, why don't you list the OL who you think could start for an upper level SEC team. Man, I flat out can't wait for this one!!!
Posted on 10/12/09 at 10:48 am to DoubleDeuce
That's okay to an extent... but J.J. had no zone in the middle to be able to step up in the pocket. All 3 Fla. DL were in the backfield and the LB's were just sitting in the hook zones to cut off slants and pursue J.J. when he did step up and slide. Nothing worked.
Posted on 10/12/09 at 10:50 am to Tomm
quote:
Nonsense, that stat is only for a pocket passer. If you are rolling out, you don't have the 3 second limitation.
When do we call a designed roll-out pass play? Almost never. JJ is being asked to play a pocket-passer. And he isn't a pocket-passer. At Destrehan they used a moving pocket. He was always moving left or right.
When you play SEC defenses you have 3 seconds. An offensive lineman can only hold a block generally for 3 seconds.
Posted on 10/12/09 at 10:50 am to LA007
Absolutely correct, as Varney said in the quote I used, LSU can't even form a defined pocket for Jefferson to try to use. There are rushers coming in from all directions. It isn't just one OL who is bad...they are all bad!
Posted on 10/12/09 at 10:52 am to DoubleDeuce
I have seen Jefferson in designed rollouts a lot. In fact, it started in the 2nd half of the Washington game which I was at. They rolled him out in the 2nd half of that game because of the UW pressure in the 1st half. That was actually an offensive adjustment I noticed.
Posted on 10/12/09 at 10:54 am to LA007
quote:this is my point. when the o line isn't cutting it, no game plan is going to work very well. people are blaming crowton but his hands are completely tied when you can't attack anything.
Nothing worked.
for the record, i'm a fan of ciron and i think he will get it together. i hope that the week off is going to hurt their pride and they'll come back with fire. the defenses they will face are beatable.
Posted on 10/12/09 at 10:55 am to Tomm
If JJ isn't stepping up into the pocket properly then that is a coaching problem, it should have been caught and corrected.
The line should be taking bigger splits. Ask Florida about that. It spreads the line out giving the d line a longer way to rush... it also opens up gaps to run in, giving the o-line a break
and yes if JJ is dropping too far without stepping up thats definitely an issue.. and obviously should have been corrected by the guys being paid a lot of money to correct it.
The line should be taking bigger splits. Ask Florida about that. It spreads the line out giving the d line a longer way to rush... it also opens up gaps to run in, giving the o-line a break
and yes if JJ is dropping too far without stepping up thats definitely an issue.. and obviously should have been corrected by the guys being paid a lot of money to correct it.
Posted on 10/12/09 at 10:56 am to LA007
JJ had plenty of room to step-up in the pocket. He refused to do so. Once the ends get up field he folds. If he feels pressure his head goes down and he doesn't have a prayer. The line is a small part of the problem, but JJ doesn't help them at all.
It's easy to just say JJ doen't have time to throw. JJ's in the shotgun most of the time...he should be able to find a receiver in the time it takes a DL to get to him.
It's easy to just say JJ doen't have time to throw. JJ's in the shotgun most of the time...he should be able to find a receiver in the time it takes a DL to get to him.
Posted on 10/12/09 at 10:59 am to DoubleDeuce
Nonsense, there is never a defined pocket just like James Varney said. Jefferson has tried every position in the so-called pocket but the OL is so bad and so inconsistent there is no safe place back there for any amount of time. When 5 blockers are getting beat by 3 rushers within a couple of seconds, the OL is the problem. 'nuff said!
As far as your shotgun statement goes, are you really saying that with 8 guys dropped back some of the time that 1 or 2 of those defenders aren't just waiting to jump a hot route. According to your statement then a shotgun QB should never be sacked which of course is not true.
As far as your shotgun statement goes, are you really saying that with 8 guys dropped back some of the time that 1 or 2 of those defenders aren't just waiting to jump a hot route. According to your statement then a shotgun QB should never be sacked which of course is not true.
This post was edited on 10/12/09 at 11:02 am
Posted on 10/12/09 at 11:00 am to Tomm
Quit trying to blame the o line for everything! You have posted several different threads, trying to put the blame on anyone but jefferson. There are other problems yes , but he is partly to blame also. I have supported jj,but at this point i say let lee take a series or two and see what happens
Posted on 10/12/09 at 11:00 am to Tomm
quote:
Oh, and the time ticked off when Jefferson runs for his life doesn't count in the OL's favor, BTW. Jefferson buys a lot more time himself than the OL gives him.
No shite. Jesus, the 2 seconds the line gives JJ to throw, plus the 3 seconds he's running for his life, does NOT equal 5 seconds to throw the ball.
Posted on 10/12/09 at 11:05 am to denvertiger
thisPosted on 10/12/09 at 11:06 am to DoubleDeuce
quote:
JJ had plenty of room to step-up in the pocket. He refused to do so. Once the ends get up field he folds. If he feels pressure his head goes down and he doesn't have a prayer. The line is a small part of the problem, but JJ doesn't help them at all.
It's easy to just say JJ doen't have time to throw. JJ's in the shotgun most of the time...he should be able to find a receiver in the time it takes a DL to get to him.
We disagree... and I don't think changing QB's is the answer, although I'm all for using R.S. 5-6 times. But, we gotta change our play calling if we're going with what we got. And, just in case you think I'm a J.L. hater and think J.J. is the best QB ever.... J.J. run's the option worse than any QB in the history of football. I blame the coaches, but some if not most of that is on him.
Posted on 10/12/09 at 11:08 am to bfniii
Who recruited the OLine then???
Isn't that Miles specialty?
Isn't that Miles specialty?
Posted on 10/12/09 at 11:10 am to tigerdup07
quote:
a q.b. take a five step drop from the shotgun. do you realize how fast you have to be as an offensive tackle to block that? it's almost like making a pocket for your fricking punter.
this...
when he drops like that all the dline has to do is run straight up field, they dont have to run through the o line they just run past them, and most Dlineman can run faster forward than an Olineman can run backwards... the Oline don't have a shot.
by contrast if he stayed at a 3 or 4 step drop the dline has to play through the Oline give the qb more time.
don't get me wrong, i think the o line needs a lot of improvement, but this is just an example of something that the coaches can do to help the Oline and the QB....
Posted on 10/12/09 at 11:11 am to thanksjhester
The reason I blame the OL is that they by far are the biggest problem. Read the original post and see the writers, the coach, and the player comments. Sorry you don't understand the problem, but that doesn't change the fact that the OL IS the main problem. If you don't agree, then move on to another thread.
Posted on 10/12/09 at 11:13 am to denvertiger
Yeah, you noticed that also. I 
when I hear some of the supposed time that Jefferson has. I never heard any football fans in my life try to count forced scrambling as pass protection time. It is a novel concept which I don't think too many knowledgeable fans will honor.
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