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Started By
Message
re: Spoke with an NFL scout regarding early departures today.
Posted on 10/21/13 at 6:09 pm to TigerBait1127
Posted on 10/21/13 at 6:09 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
he played high school football and knows a NFL scout
You forgot to mention also coached the game at the high school level. Again I am not going to call you out as to what you have ever done in this sport. Your comments clearly let the world know. Madden NFL-er and fantasy football wannabe.
Don't be a hater because I played the game "you from your comments obviously never have" and I have forgotten more about the game than you will ever know in your entire lifetime.
And if you don't like what I bring to the table, don't come to the table.
0
Posted on 10/21/13 at 6:09 pm to Dudebro2
true,,,but if you are a kid....and u can get in the league and play for the minimum,,,vice being in school playing and risking injury for no pay....most kids are gonna jump.
Posted on 10/21/13 at 6:10 pm to CalTiger53
quote:
Good players in good programs only leave if they are drafted in first 2 rounds
quote:
In some cases (when the players is from a family with good education) they may not leave even when they are in top 5.
If you are first round pick, let alone top 5, you should go.
This post was edited on 10/21/13 at 6:11 pm
Posted on 10/21/13 at 6:11 pm to Dudebro2
quote:
"unless their position is RB" and they are an underclassmen, if they are NOT projected to go in the top 2 rounds he would do everything in his power to convince play out their eligibility.
This is what the LSU coaching staff needs to do.
Posted on 10/21/13 at 6:13 pm to WPBTiger
quote:
This is what the LSU coaching staff needs to do.
how do you know they aren't doing everything in their power?
Pretty easy to say guys should stay and play for free rather than get paid while you are getting paid at your job.
Posted on 10/21/13 at 6:14 pm to saintsfan22
quote:
O RLY???
I realize that is a no brainer, but the guy asked so I responded. It could have been sarcasm but he asked the question trying to respond to it just incase it wasn't and didn't want to be a dick with the answers I could have given. I will save those responses for the dumbest and stupidest rantard on this board. Drum roll please!!!!!
The winner is;
TigerBait1127
This post was edited on 10/21/13 at 6:15 pm
Posted on 10/21/13 at 6:14 pm to TigersforEver
quote:
I can't believe some of the responses
I can. Site has always had its share of wise guys.
The more you see, smarter you get part was interesting to see...the more you do, the more you learn is a project mgmt principle
Posted on 10/21/13 at 6:15 pm to Dudebro2
I'm not hating on you just poking fun at the idea of a scout wasting time on Welter.
Posted on 10/21/13 at 6:17 pm to TigersforEver
quote:
I can't believe some of the responses - this is probably the most important post on here since LSUMatt's 2007 "here's how we can still go to the ship" thread.
How so?? This is some of the most obvious shite. Hey don't go early. RBs go early less tear on the body. This is stuff everyone that has a brain that follows football knows.
I'm not dogging the OP. This is my first post in this thread but this comment is so dumb.
Posted on 10/21/13 at 6:20 pm to jlc05
quote:
The more you see, smarter you get part was interesting to see...the more you do, the more you learn is a project mgmt principle
that makes some sense, but there is also probably a point of diminishing returns and it is also leaving out a lot of relevant factors. There is the injury risk, his play could slip or not improve greatly, there could be other more talented players at his position in the next class etc.
Sticking with Minter, I'm sorry but there was no reason for him to come back, despite what this 1 scout says. He graduated, was in the program for 4 years, he was a 2nd round pick coming off a great season. He was not going to get bigger or faster. That he may not be a star or even playing 6-7 games into his rookie year is meaningless.
This post was edited on 10/21/13 at 6:21 pm
Posted on 10/21/13 at 6:25 pm to ready4something
quote:
true,,,but if you are a kid....and u can get in the league and play for the minimum,,,vice being in school playing and risking injury for no pay....most kids are gonna jump
Ok this is where he spent a lot of time. He felt "his opinion, but he said it is shared by many scouts but most can't or won't admit it" that they are playing for free in the NFL if they are earning the league mins. He feels that if they stay and move up the board than the year they stayed is like getting paid for that year in next years pay. Obviously the injury is a risk, but other than RB you can't project that. Would you stay another year if the difference was making $1mil to 1.5mil next year as opposed to 400k this year? That is why he would recommend to stay for any relative or friend. He also said that is generalization and every situation is specific but in most cases it works out that way. He stated if they are good enough to make the minimum what would happen if they came back and had a stellar year, only moving up. Their are risks in life but he feels the risk is worth the reward. Again just his opinion but he said if you talked to scouts on the side to a man most would feel that way.
Posted on 10/21/13 at 6:34 pm to Dudebro2
quote:
Would you stay another year if the difference was making $1mil to 1.5mil next year as opposed to 400k this year
That's the key question and if you could guarantee that coming back meant that much of an increase, then he'd be correct, but there is not that guarantee.
This post was edited on 10/21/13 at 6:35 pm
Posted on 10/21/13 at 6:35 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Sticking with Minter, I'm sorry but there was no reason for him to come back, despite what this 1 scout says. He graduated, was in the program for 4 years, he was a 2nd round pick coming off a great season. He was not going to get bigger or faster.
Minter he spent a lot of time on because I asked him a lot. He repeated unless 1st or 2nd rounder he would stay and obviously Minter went in the second round.
Ok here is the boring part. Why he thought Minter "maybe" should have stayed is because he strongly "and he repeated strongly" feels Minter would have been the first linebacker drafted this year and won the Butkus award. He says when you are drafted in the 1st round, everyone in management from the scouts, to the coaches to the gm have every incentive in the world to make sure you succeed, because if you don't the owners are going to put the blame on them. So he is going to get chances earlier to perform. He didn't think that Minter's play would drop off at all and the injury risk is a risk but the difference between his contract from the 2nd round this year to probably a top 15 pick next year over the life of the contract he felt would be at least $5mil. He said is that amount of money worth the risk for another year in college, in his opinion it is. But again that is his opinion.
This post was edited on 10/21/13 at 6:47 pm
Posted on 10/21/13 at 6:41 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
That's the key question and if you could guarantee that coming back meant that much of an increase, then he'd be correct, but there is not that guarantee.
Yep that is the problem, but that is where he lays the blame on the agents because they do everything in their power to convince these kids they are not going to make the league mins, and that is exactly what usually happens. What they never do he says is, show them what the differences could be if they did stay in school and have confidence in their ability to move up the draft board next year. Again he states the difference is if they are a mid rounder this year, moving up to be top 1, 2 or 3 rounds is huge in pay is it worth the risk. He believes so but he also states that every player is player specific obviously.
Posted on 10/21/13 at 6:42 pm to Dudebro2
There are a lot of assumptions there if he wins the Butkus, but what about guys like Hubbard and Mosely or pass rushing LB's? If the team falls off, he might not get the attention. Its not so much that his play would fall off, but it really couldn't improve and other scouts may hold that against him. If he was taken in the top 15-20, he'd make more off his first contract, but that's still an extra year at zero and he is a year closer to the 2nd contract. I understand people on the pro side thinking another year of playing is better, but like i said, he graduated, was in the program 4 years, was a 2nd round pick. If the only reason for him to stay is maybe he moves up, i don't think that's good enough.
Very easy to say it is worth the risk when it is not your money being risked. Generally I agree with the above, if not rounds 1-3 stay, except for RB's. I think Simon should have stayed he had a lot of room to move up and was a true Jr, same with Faulk due to injury. The rest I thought going made sense. Even Montgomery was drafted in the 3rd and it seems his "drop" had a lot more to do with interviews and stuff he did/said like taking games off, than that he didn't play enough.
Of this year's crop, I think Collins should stay. He plays a high value position that gets drafted high and this is his first year playing it at the college level. An extra year could greatly benefit him. Hill, Landry, Beckham, might as well go.
quote:
moving up to be top 1, 2 or 3 rounds is huge in pay is it worth the risk. He believes so but he also states that every player is player specific obviously.
Very easy to say it is worth the risk when it is not your money being risked. Generally I agree with the above, if not rounds 1-3 stay, except for RB's. I think Simon should have stayed he had a lot of room to move up and was a true Jr, same with Faulk due to injury. The rest I thought going made sense. Even Montgomery was drafted in the 3rd and it seems his "drop" had a lot more to do with interviews and stuff he did/said like taking games off, than that he didn't play enough.
Of this year's crop, I think Collins should stay. He plays a high value position that gets drafted high and this is his first year playing it at the college level. An extra year could greatly benefit him. Hill, Landry, Beckham, might as well go.
This post was edited on 10/21/13 at 6:48 pm
Posted on 10/21/13 at 6:56 pm to H-Town Tiger
H-Town you have some very valid points and one of the things he said was "it is easy to say all these things when it is not your money" but he has been a scout for just under 20years and he also said everything he is saying is generalization but most of it can apply to 90 to 95% of the early entrants. Again he really hates sports agents because he feels they really lead these players on and end up hurting the individuals they are supposed to be representing. He also stated that there is no shortage of talent in the NFL it is a shortage of impact talent which he states you typically don't get from the lower rounds.
He talked about Montgomery and he stated that everything Montgomery has done is self inflicted and that happens, but he thinks the Montgomery issues are maturity and that again would have been better served in college maturing another year.
He talked about Montgomery and he stated that everything Montgomery has done is self inflicted and that happens, but he thinks the Montgomery issues are maturity and that again would have been better served in college maturing another year.
Posted on 10/21/13 at 7:02 pm to Dudebro2
quote:
. He felt "his opinion, but he said it is shared by many scouts but most can't or won't admit it" that they are playing for free in the NFL if they are earning the league mins.
From the team's point of view but not from the players.
Posted on 10/21/13 at 7:04 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Of this year's crop, I think Collins should stay. He plays a high value position that gets drafted high and this is his first year playing it at the college level. An extra year could greatly benefit him. Hill, Landry, Beckham, might as well go.
He said the same thing, Collins would be smart to stay because with a good year "nothing to believe he won't" and staying healthy "again a risk but he feels it can be easy to calculate it" he should be an easy mid 1st rounder and that will be huge as to what he will probably be drafted this year if he does go. He stated it will really depend on how well Collins does in the combines. He completely understands if Hill goes and he truly recognizes the wear and tear on RB's and with Hill he said he probably will go and the agents will be all over him. But again he truly feels that Hill would be the 1st running back off the board next year, and he will not be this year. He feels if Hill were to stay healthy "obviously the risk" and with the O-Line LSU will probably have coming back that Hill will have a monster year and that could probably mean an extra $5-7million in money to him over the life of his first contract.
Regarding OBJ & Landry it is projecting but he just can't see their draft status improving with another year in school and an inexperienced QB at the helm. So he would advise them to go.
This post was edited on 10/21/13 at 9:19 pm
Posted on 10/21/13 at 7:11 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
but that's still an extra year at zero and he is a year closer to the 2nd contract
He said he was generalizing but he said you can't look at it like that, it is over the life of his contract and you have to look at it as life span in the NFL. He said there is nothing to say because you left early that you will stay longer than the NFL average in years. So if your first contract is worth $5mil over the life if you leave early but $10mil if you would have stayed. End of story you are going to make $5mil more. Your second contract is what it is and will be that no matter what if you perform. So over the life of your 2nd contract if it is $30mil you are going to make that no matter what. If it is a year delayed, you don't make that up in the $5mil you lost from leaving early as opposed to staying.
This post was edited on 10/21/13 at 7:12 pm
Posted on 10/21/13 at 7:11 pm to Dudebro2
These kids usually won't listen to reason so I doubt that anything short of some serious parental control would keep most of them in school.
How many of these kids have a mother and father who can help them to make the best decision? How many parents are telling the kids to pass on 3rd round money? If you were in that situation and told your kid to stay in school...Would he listen?
How many of these kids have a mother and father who can help them to make the best decision? How many parents are telling the kids to pass on 3rd round money? If you were in that situation and told your kid to stay in school...Would he listen?
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