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re: Monday Morning Coaches....Give Me A F'n Break
Posted on 6/7/10 at 12:40 pm to Terry the Tiger
Posted on 6/7/10 at 12:40 pm to Terry the Tiger
quote:
Game 3 against MSU, the Tigers had the bases loaded and no outs late in the game and failed to score and lost 2-1. Fast forward to UCI and deja vu all over again.
these two have ZERO to do with each other. how can you even start to compare bases loaded with no outs verses 2 on with no out. the whole discussion of this thread is bunting in the UCI game
quote:agreed that walking leadoff batters is a cardinal sin, but i dont follow how a pitcher walking a batter is the manager's fault. lots of things to blame a coach on, but that is not one of them.
CPM becomes an average manager in a low scoring game where every 90' is precious. In those types of game, you cannot afford to walk guys leading off innings
quote:a very spoiled fan with a very predictable response. we are a two-seed playing 2,000 miles from hone and lost to 2 teams playing in their backyard with higher rankings in close games.
The fact is that this was not a very talented team and if it would have beaten UCI there was no way it would have beaten UCLA twice. A disspointing season came to a disspointing end.
they were tough loses, but it happens sometimes. even to the mighty Tigers of LSU
This post was edited on 6/7/10 at 12:41 pm
1
Posted on 6/7/10 at 12:56 pm to TiegerTim
quote:
wasn't the next out a fly ball??? should have been able to get the run home
+1 Different results
Posted on 6/7/10 at 12:59 pm to Rouge
quote:
a very spoiled fan with a very predictable response. we are a two-seed playing 2,000 miles from hone and lost to 2 teams playing in their backyard with higher rankings in close games.
These are all unacceptable excuses in a tight ball game. It was different when we were kicking arse at the Box. It's baseball; plain and simple. We went against the odds and lost. Season over.
Edited to say we did the same thing in the 9th inning when we got the leadoff hitter on and didn't move him into scoring position. Look Mainieri deserves to shoulder some of the blame for the losses. It was poor decision after poor decision. He lost confidence in certain players and punished the team, the fans and especially the rantards.
This post was edited on 6/7/10 at 1:05 pm
Posted on 6/7/10 at 1:13 pm to Rouge
quote:
so then you have runner at second and third with one out.....maybe. that would depend on a good bunt that was able to move the runner over and not be thrown out at 3B. in no way does that guarantee that the run will score
The next batter would have sac flyed to RF, game tied.
quote:
i dont think you want to get into that pissing match
I can hold my own but thanks.
What you may be missing is that a sac bunt is supposed to be a given when you're playing at this level. With no outs and the tying run 2 bags away from the plate - 2 sac bunts equal a run and that is what should have happened with Ott on the mound looking good.
Posted on 6/7/10 at 1:19 pm to Rouge
quote:
3 chances at getting a hit is still a lot better than 2 chances at getting a hit, in my book
With a sac bunt you NEVER have to get a hit. You can either go sac fly, past ball, wild pitch, throwing error by an infielder...I mean the possibilities are more plentiful from 3B than they are from 2B...
Posted on 6/7/10 at 1:28 pm to Herbstreit
quote:
Bertman had a similar situation with Cresse in the 2000 Championship Game. Should he have bunted right there too?
I recall that the decision was whether or not to bunt Fontenot. Theriot singled through the left side to open the frame, and Bertman decided against sac bunting Fontenot because he felt that Stanford would intentionally walk Cresse (putting the double play in order and taking the bat out of Cresse's hand).
Posted on 6/7/10 at 1:44 pm to Herbstreit
quote:
With a sac bunt you NEVER have to get a hit. You can either go sac fly, past ball, wild pitch, throwing error by an infielder...I mean the possibilities are more plentiful from 3B than they are from 2B...
There is merit to bunting and merit to having 4, 5, 6 getting a shot for a base hit. It's not as black or white as some like to think.
The call to hit away in the 9th with a runner on 1st and none out is much more questionable. imo
Posted on 6/7/10 at 2:11 pm to Lonnie4LSU
I question both calls, however, I think the one in the 8th is the more questionable of the two. I'd venture to say undeer those exact circumstances 80-90% of coaches would have bunted in that situation no matter who's at the plate.
The situation that I speak of:
Elimination game, down by 1, runners on 1st and2nd, no outs, 3 year starter at the plate, and we had only collected 5 hits through 7 innings of play.
To me it's a no-brainer tobunt and I would think to most other coaches it would be a no-brainer...but that JMO
BTW, I think Rouge has a very good thread here where people are posting their opinions and no ones getting all rantarded...appreciate it Rouge!
The situation that I speak of:
Elimination game, down by 1, runners on 1st and2nd, no outs, 3 year starter at the plate, and we had only collected 5 hits through 7 innings of play.
To me it's a no-brainer tobunt and I would think to most other coaches it would be a no-brainer...but that JMO
BTW, I think Rouge has a very good thread here where people are posting their opinions and no ones getting all rantarded...appreciate it Rouge!
Posted on 6/7/10 at 2:26 pm to ccomeaux
quote:
so then you have runner at second and third with one out.....maybe. that would depend on a good bunt that was able to move the runner over and not be thrown out at 3B. in no way does that guarantee that the run will score
The next batter would have sac flyed to RF, game tied.
you can never assume what would have happened based upoin what did happen. the next batter would have been pitched completely differently
my best guess is that the next batter would have been intentionally walked to set up the force at any bag and the double play. so now you have the bases loaded with your #6 batter up and your #4 and #5 hitters not driving in a run. i don't care for that situation.
This post was edited on 6/7/10 at 2:28 pm
Posted on 6/7/10 at 2:30 pm to Rouge
quote:
my best guess is that the next batter would have been intentionally walked to set up the force at any bag and the double play. so now you have the bases loaded with your #6 batter up and your #4 and #5 hitters not driving in a run. i don't care for that situation.
OK then, Landy is up (4 of 9) with a man in scoring position and the game tied at 4. How is that a bad situation ?
Posted on 6/7/10 at 2:30 pm to Rouge
quote:
3 chances at getting a hit is still a lot better than 2 chances at getting a hit, in my book
But if you have a guy on third you don't need a hit just a fly ball to the outfield.
Which is exactly what Nola did. If Mikie was on third b/c of a Gibbs bunt the game would have been tied.
Posted on 6/7/10 at 2:32 pm to ccomeaux
quote:i dont follow
Landy is up (4 of 9) with a man in scoring position and the game tied at 4. How is that a bad situation ?
Landry would have been up with the bases loaded and us down a run
Posted on 6/7/10 at 2:35 pm to Rouge
quote:
Landry would have been up with the bases loaded and us down a run
If they walk Nola, yes. I was working from Nola flies out like he did and we score on the sac fly after bunting the runners over.
Posted on 6/7/10 at 2:36 pm to ScottieP
quote:
But if you have a guy on third you don't need a hit just a fly ball to the outfield.
Which is exactly what Nola did. If Mikie was on third b/c of a Gibbs bunt the game would have been tied.
once again, you cannot assume that UCI would have pitched the same to Nola, or pitched at all to him. a different situation would have dictated a different pitching strategy.
Posted on 6/7/10 at 2:37 pm to ccomeaux
quote:see my response to ScottieP
I was working from Nola flies out like he did
Posted on 6/7/10 at 2:38 pm to Rouge
quote:
you can never assume what would have happened based upoin what did happen. the next batter would have been pitched completely differently
my best guess is that the next batter would have been intentionally walked to set up the force at any bag and the double play. so now you have the bases loaded with your #6 batter up and your #4 and #5 hitters not driving in a run. i don't care for that situation.
Ok say that did happen then the pitcher has to pitch differnt with the bases loaded. You have to be more aggressive as a pitcher b/c you can not walk the batter and you are less likely to throw a ball in the dirt and risk a wild pitch/passed ball.
Posted on 6/7/10 at 2:41 pm to ScottieP
the best thing about having Landry up right there is that the middle infielders cannot play back becasue they wont be able to turn the double play
that being said, i'm sure the plan would have been a steady does of curveballs and inside fastballs to minimize his ability to get his hands extended.
that being said, i'm sure the plan would have been a steady does of curveballs and inside fastballs to minimize his ability to get his hands extended.
Posted on 6/7/10 at 2:43 pm to Rouge
quote:
once again, you cannot assume that UCI would have pitched the same to Nola, or pitched at all to him. a different situation would have dictated a different pitching strategy.
A agree they probably would walk Nola to load the bases but you would have Landry up with them loaded a 1 out. I like my chances of Leon putting the ball in play and not hitting itno a double play.
Posted on 6/7/10 at 2:44 pm to ScottieP
quote:and i prefer Gibbs swinging the stick with a runner in scoring position
A agree they probably would walk Nola to load the bases but you would have Landry up with them loaded a 1 out. I like my chances of Leon putting the ball in play and not hitting itno a double play.
it's all about personal preference. nothing wrong with either position. just different strategy.
i just wouldnt want to take the bat out of my best hitter's hands.
This post was edited on 6/7/10 at 2:46 pm
Posted on 6/7/10 at 2:51 pm to Rouge
quote:
i just wouldnt want to take the bat out of my best hitter's hands.
First off I would always bunt in that situation.
Secondly Gibbs was batting .410 with 2 games left in the SEC tourney, he finished the year .388. I do not think he was seeing the ball a well later in the year.
Plus a base hit does not alway mean a run. If Gibbs hits one on a line Mahtook has to wait and see if it is caught thus not scoring.
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