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re: Jesse Palmer: "Lee is the best QB in the SEC."

Posted on 9/27/11 at 1:08 pm to
Posted by OBUDan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40723 posts
Posted on 9/27/11 at 1:08 pm to
quote:

The 6 in radius refers to where he wants to place and that is not necessarily on or between the numbers.


Yeah, you're right.
Posted by OBUDan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40723 posts
Posted on 9/27/11 at 1:11 pm to
quote:

There was a ball caught by Beckham in an earlier game that was thrown a bit low and behind him. Screen shot analysis would have made that look like a poorly thrown ball. I think it was thrown there by design because of the defenders position...of course, no way to know for sure.


Eh, Beckham had to stop his route and dive backward to catch the ball.

I get what you are saying in regards to throwing short and behind people as a means of keeping it from the defender, but this can usually be discerned pretty easily IMO.
Posted by Mulat
Avalon Bch, FL
Member since Sep 2010
17517 posts
Posted on 9/27/11 at 1:14 pm to
quote:

Beckham had to stop his route and dive backward to catch the ball.


Yeah it is called an adjustment that is what a great receiver does.
Posted by OBUDan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40723 posts
Posted on 9/27/11 at 1:15 pm to
quote:

Yeah it is called an adjustment that is what a great receiver does.



Right, but he was crediting Lee for the throw when in reality it was a great play by a great WR.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
282854 posts
Posted on 9/27/11 at 1:16 pm to
quote:



I'm an LSU fan. Why would I want Jarrett Lee to suck?



I don't think you did, but now you have a difficult time admitting you were just wrong. It's easier for you just to continue believing your previous bullshite.
This post was edited on 9/27/11 at 1:25 pm
Posted by OBUDan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40723 posts
Posted on 9/27/11 at 1:25 pm to
quote:

I don't think you did, but now you have a difficult time admitting you were just wrong.


About what?

Him playing average to below average against Oregon? I wasn't wrong about that.

quote:

It's easier for you just ton continue believing your previous bullshite.


I'm not sure what you are referencing. I had very little confidence in Lee coming into this year (why would I have confidence in him?) or Jefferson (again, why would I?).

Lee has played well, and I've acknowledged that plenty of times throughout this thread and others.
Posted by Housplants
Germantown, TN
Member since Dec 2006
1464 posts
Posted on 9/27/11 at 2:41 pm to
quote:

Right, but he was crediting Lee for the throw when in reality it was a great play by a great WR


That is not at all what I did. It was a nice play be Beckham. However, it looked to me like a planned back shoulder throw. Because I am not an LSU coach or player, I do no know this to be true, and of course you do not know it to be false.

Not knowing where the ball was supposed to be thrown makes it pretty easy for a fan to in correctly evaluate a play like that correctly.
Posted by OBUDan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40723 posts
Posted on 9/27/11 at 2:49 pm to
quote:

However, it looked to me like a planned back shoulder throw.


Even if it was, it was still poorly thrown was my point.

quote:

Because I am not an LSU coach or player, I do no know this to be true, and of course you do not know it to be false.


I don't think you have to be an LSU coach to recognize these things. You can watch the tape and see the design of the play, and if you have any familiarity with it, you'll have a general idea of where the ball should be placed.

Like the TD to Randle vs. Oregon. Live, I thought it was a poorly thrown fade, but when I rewatched I realized it was just a comeback route, intentionally thrown short and to the outside shoulder so that Randle could body up, wall off the defender and make the catch. Of course, that was probably an option route, which Randle based off the defender (and Lee read based off the defender). Good play by both of them.
Posted by Housplants
Germantown, TN
Member since Dec 2006
1464 posts
Posted on 9/27/11 at 3:04 pm to
quote:

Even if it was, it was still poorly thrown was my point


If it was a designed throw, it was perfectly thrown...IMO.

No way for it to be picked, and Beckham made the catch.

I guess this is where bias shows. One (or both) of us are allowing our bias to color our evaluation of that throw. However, to call it a poorly thrown ball completely discounts variables that we as fans cannot account for.

I believe it was thrown before Beckham even made his break. Did Beckham slant further than the play was designed? Did he break earlier than designed? Or did Lee not throw to the correct spot? Since we do not know, it is impossible to say with any certainty that the throw was poor.

All we know for sure was the it was a completed pass, and I think both players should get credit for that.

There have been crazy comparisons drawn to professional QBs and their feeling that an accurate pass is within 6 inches of their target. That is an unreasonable standard to hold a college QB and a true freshman receiver to after very limited reps together, don't you think?
This post was edited on 9/27/11 at 3:47 pm
Posted by Tigerloo
Member since Sep 2007
397 posts
Posted on 9/27/11 at 9:03 pm to
I still think it is hilarious that last year we had a dog's breakfast for an offense, and this year we want to nitpick on throws that were caught and contributed heavily to what looks like a much better offense.

It would be interesting to calculate how many points per possession LSU is averaging this year vs last, and vs the rest of the top ten. This is a very telling stat on the effectiveness of an offense, and it does not get any attention in the mainstream. My guess is that the tigers would rate pretty high on this stat (to this point I am too lazy to calculate it)

Posted by CostaRicaTiger
Thailand
Member since Aug 2008
321 posts
Posted on 9/28/11 at 12:34 am to
The QB rating does not include the many drops against Oregon or the sure-fire TD that was dropped in the endzone by Randle against WV. I wouldn't pay attention to the QB rating until the end of the year when the season is finished. How many of the QBs on the list will be injured by the end of the year? How many will be in jail? Just sayin' the win total is more important and JL is the perfect fit for our team "right now.'' ha, ha, ha.
Posted by TIGERTANK59
Member since Sep 2011
509 posts
Posted on 9/28/11 at 2:25 pm to
quote:

I still think it is hilarious that last year we had a dog's breakfast for an offense, and this year we want to nitpick on throws that were caught and contributed heavily to what looks like a much better offense.

It would be interesting to calculate how many points per possession LSU is averaging this year vs last, and vs the rest of the top ten. This is a very telling stat on the effectiveness of an offense, and it does not get any attention in the mainstream. My guess is that the tigers would rate pretty high on this stat (to this point I am too lazy to calculate it)


One word for LSU's offensive success at QB.

Kragsthorpe

Before the illness was diagnosed, he helped improve technique for all 3 QBs.

LSU offensive output for 2010 was 29 PPG.

IT'S NOW 39 PPG ... Just 0.25 PPG above the 2007 BCS Champion squad

Some would argue the defense gives us these extra points ... and they may have a case.

I say to them that Lee has 1 pick thru 4 games, so STFU

You wanna know LSU's secret ... He's the man behind the curtain ... He's the wizard

Coach Krags, god love him
This post was edited on 9/28/11 at 2:28 pm
Posted by Templars
Member since Oct 2005
2981 posts
Posted on 9/28/11 at 11:30 pm to
Well, Jesse Palmer has been the most astute observer in the ESPN club for some time. He is a very student of the game and some might argue with him here, but I was thinking the exact same thing after this past weekend.
Posted by Templars
Member since Oct 2005
2981 posts
Posted on 9/28/11 at 11:31 pm to
quote:

I just noticed that he has only been sacked 3 times this year. Very impressive by both, him, and the o-line.


He has a quick release as well as a good O line in front him. He has no reason to be sacked a great deal this year.
Posted by Templars
Member since Oct 2005
2981 posts
Posted on 9/28/11 at 11:33 pm to
quote:

quote:
quote:
According to ESPN QB Ratings Lee is 5th in the SEC....41st in the Nation

1. Aaron Murray Georgia 163.0
2. Tyler Wilson Arkansas 151.0
3. Barrett Trotter Auburn 148.7
4. John Brantley Florida 148.1
5. Jarrett Lee LSU 145.1
6. AJ McCarron Alabama 144.9
Per updated official NCAA stats, he is #6 in the SEC with a 145.08 rating (behind Bray, Murray, Wilson, Trotter, Brantley) and #43 nationally.


There are other intangibles to QB performance than merely stats. I believe those intangibles are what Palmer bases his opinion on, in case some of us are completely clueless.
Posted by Big EZ Tiger
Member since Jul 2010
25302 posts
Posted on 9/28/11 at 11:51 pm to
quote:

Never ever heard talk like that about JJ...Just think, one of the best QB's in the SEC may have never seen the field this year had it not been for a guys night out at Shady's...I guess Les just likes JJ more than Lee for some reason.


Well...Palmer did say this about JJ at the Manning Camp -
"He's one of those guys when you watch him throw against the air, he's unbelievable," Palmer said. "You see his athleticism and look at the strong arm, his ability to make all the throws. His drops are about as natural as anyone I've ever played with and that includes Kurt Warner, Kerry Collins and Eli (Manning)."

I'm not kidding - he actually said that. I like Jesse, but it's possible that he's just a little too high on LSU QBs. Although McElroy from Bama was at the camp and also spoke highly of JJ and what he did against Bama last year - it least his comments were based off of a game.

However, JL probably is playing about as good any other QB in the league. I know there are a number of newer QBs, but still, it's good to be thought of like that. However, I think Arkansas' QB is playing the best considering what he's working with. His OL is terrible with all the injuries and true freshmen starting...they also lost their star RB for the year. If they just get a decent offensive line he'll probably be shredding teams. He got drilled worse than I've seen a QB get drilled over a whole game in a very long time against Bama and didn't have happy feet.
Posted by SouljaBreauxTellEm
Mizz
Member since Aug 2009
29343 posts
Posted on 9/28/11 at 11:56 pm to
exactly.. stats alone do not tell the true story. there's several factors to consider.. but lee has to have the best td to int ratio in the entire SEC.
Posted by TIGERTANK59
Member since Sep 2011
509 posts
Posted on 9/29/11 at 12:06 am to
Just heard Les say (Weekly talk show TJ Ribs) that he expects Lee to have an NFL career and an NFL team would be lucky to have him



Les also said it was Lee's job and the team chemistry would not be affected with the return of JJ

Les Miles is one class act ... we are very lucky to have him as a coach and he told a 10-year old boy who called the show on his birthday (Coach asked the boy if he had a wish and the boy said he wished he could grow up and play for LSU). Les thought about it and said he would be around when he became old enough to play for LSU ... he answered the NFL speculation BS
Posted by Housplants
Germantown, TN
Member since Dec 2006
1464 posts
Posted on 9/29/11 at 12:13 am to
quote:

One word for LSU's offensive success at QB. Kragsthorpe


Well, I think the player that is executing the QB position deserves as much credit as Kragthorpe. JMHO.
Posted by TIGERTANK59
Member since Sep 2011
509 posts
Posted on 9/29/11 at 2:57 pm to
quote:

Well, I think the player that is executing the QB position deserves as much credit as Kragthorpe. JMHO.


And without Krags, Lee is likely repeating his last season stats and earlier ... lots of picks
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