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Message
re: Jarrett Lee
Posted on 7/27/10 at 12:33 pm to just me
Posted on 7/27/10 at 12:33 pm to just me
quote:
I don't think JL has to see his receivers open before he throws them the ball.
JL just read a lot of wrong coverages his RSFR season. Then again, that happens to a lot of young QBs who are not afraid to sling it.
JJ was too tentative last year. JL was overly aggressive in 2008. We need someone right in the middle of those two.
This post was edited on 7/27/10 at 12:34 pm
1
Posted on 7/27/10 at 1:39 pm to Funreaux
Jumping in a few days late, he threw a pick 6 in the spring game. Just saying...
Posted on 7/27/10 at 2:17 pm to LSUGradATL
dynamite dropin, ATL
Posted on 7/27/10 at 2:48 pm to LSUGradATL
Btw...If you listened to the analysis and watched the play..it happened because the WR's and LINEMAN didn't get out and block correctly. Again one of the several so called "pick 6's" being blamed on Lee.
Posted on 7/27/10 at 2:51 pm to LSUAlum2001
quote:
JJ was too tentative last year. JL was overly aggressive in 2008. We need someone right in the middle of those two.
Dead on. Both QB's have the same problem manifested in different ways.
Idiots who don't know shite rail on the "pick six" which is nothing but an interception that the offense hasn't been trained to stop, once the catch has been made. Its an interception. Blame the 6 on the whole 11 on the field.
Both QB's have trouble reading the defense. JJ is too tentative, Lee is too quick to make the throw.
Posted on 7/27/10 at 2:56 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Idiots who don't know shite rail on the "pick six" which is nothing but an interception that the offense hasn't been trained to stop, once the catch has been made. Its an interception. Blame the 6 on the whole 11 on the field.
Yes, you can do that if it's a deep throw or something across the middle. However, if you throw it out on the wing or in the flat...different story altogether. (ala Auburn)
I'm not bashing you or the QB's Rog....just saying that it's on the QB, no matter who it is, if he throws it out there and he's the only line of defense.
Posted on 7/27/10 at 2:59 pm to mtnhighTiger
quote:
I'm not bashing you or the QB's Rog....just saying that it's on the QB, no matter who it is, if he throws it out there and he's the only line of defense.
Not all of the "pick sixes" were in the flat. some were across the middle. He wasn't the only line of defense.
Posted on 7/27/10 at 3:03 pm to mtnhighTiger
quote:
Yes, you can do that if it's a deep throw or something across the middle. However, if you throw it out on the wing or in the flat...different story altogether. (ala Auburn)
I'm not bashing you or the QB's Rog....just saying that it's on the QB, no matter who it is, if he throws it out there and he's the only line of defense.
Those 7 pick sixes were returned for a total of 301 yards.
Let that sink in. A lot of people quit on those plays for that to happen.
Posted on 7/27/10 at 3:08 pm to TIsuGGER
quote:
Those 7 pick sixes were returned for a total of 301 yards.
Let that sink in. A lot of people quit on those plays for that to happen.
Lets not ruin these fools fantasy. Fiction is preferable to truth for many. Main problem I had with the Ints that season was that the same plays were being repeatedly called when the staff knew there were problems, and Lee regressed....not progressed.
Think we saw the same thing last season with different results.
Posted on 7/27/10 at 3:10 pm to Antonio Moss
I don't really have a dog in this fight. I'm neither anti-Lee nor anti-Jefferson. I just want the starter to do well and LSU to win and I want the QB on the field that gives us the best chance to win. That being said, let's not try to use statistics in a misleading way. Antonio Moss, for example, posted a thorough post refuting the claims of Lee's supporters but did so in an intellectually dishonest manner. Let's examine:
Simple math right. Divide yards by # of games and there's your answer. Wrong! You may have all forgotten that we had a kid from Harvard in 2008 who started the first three games of the season and played in six of them. So while Lee "played in" 11 games, he only played about half of the game v. Appalachian State and Auburn. I think he played a little more than half against North Texas that year and I want to say he was injured in the first quarter v. Ole Miss (it was definitely before half time). I could be wrong about these but assuming I am not, take Lee's 2,070 yards and divide them by 9 (the 7 games he was the man, plus 0.75 for North Texas, plus 0.25 for Ole Miss plus 0.5 for Appy State and 0.5 for Auburn). That yields 230 yards per game.
Do the same for Jefferson on an apples-to-apples basis. Jefferson, by my calculation, played in 11.5 games. He started Washington through Bama and was injured about halfway through the Bama game. He didn't play v. La Tech and then played full games against Ole Miss, Arky and PSU. Divide his 2,166 by 11.5 games and it yields 188.35 YPG.
So no, Jefferson did not throw
Lee threw for 41.65 YPG more than Jefferson.
Again, I'm not trying to say Lee is better (or worse). I'm just saying that statistics are like a string bikini. What they reveal is interesting. But what they cover up can be essential.
Carry on.
quote:
Actually, Jefferson threw for the exact same amount of yards per game last year as Lee did in 2008.
Simple math right. Divide yards by # of games and there's your answer. Wrong! You may have all forgotten that we had a kid from Harvard in 2008 who started the first three games of the season and played in six of them. So while Lee "played in" 11 games, he only played about half of the game v. Appalachian State and Auburn. I think he played a little more than half against North Texas that year and I want to say he was injured in the first quarter v. Ole Miss (it was definitely before half time). I could be wrong about these but assuming I am not, take Lee's 2,070 yards and divide them by 9 (the 7 games he was the man, plus 0.75 for North Texas, plus 0.25 for Ole Miss plus 0.5 for Appy State and 0.5 for Auburn). That yields 230 yards per game.
Do the same for Jefferson on an apples-to-apples basis. Jefferson, by my calculation, played in 11.5 games. He started Washington through Bama and was injured about halfway through the Bama game. He didn't play v. La Tech and then played full games against Ole Miss, Arky and PSU. Divide his 2,166 by 11.5 games and it yields 188.35 YPG.
So no, Jefferson did not throw
quote:
for the exact same amount of yards per game last year as Lee did in 2008
Lee threw for 41.65 YPG more than Jefferson.
Again, I'm not trying to say Lee is better (or worse). I'm just saying that statistics are like a string bikini. What they reveal is interesting. But what they cover up can be essential.
Carry on.
Posted on 7/27/10 at 3:12 pm to Mike Linebacker
It's amazing what an o-line and running game can do for you.
Posted on 7/27/10 at 3:12 pm to Mike Linebacker
So Jefferson threw for less yards and still managed to put up more TDs? INTERESTING.
Posted on 7/27/10 at 3:14 pm to Mike Linebacker
Same principle applies for passes of 25+ yards. It was already shown in a post where Lee avg about 2 per game. Which means JJ would need 23+ to have had more.
Dont believe thats true
Dont believe thats true
Posted on 7/27/10 at 3:15 pm to Choctaw
quote:
It's amazing what an o-line and running game can do for you.
Yeah, that's all it was. The O line. So the offensive line regressed despite it being one of the best in the Miles era???
Lee had some moments. You people just selectively forget. Just like Jefferson and Miles, you need to give Lee the benefit of the doubt too. He may end up getting significant playing time this year.
Posted on 7/27/10 at 3:19 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Posted on 7/27/10 at 3:21 pm to Elleshoe
14 divided by 9.5 = 1.47 TD passes per game
17 divided by 11.5 = 1.48 TD passes per game.
Look this is inexact stuff. Trying to use stats is dubious. We have two QBs to date who are very flawed. Lee misses defenders and doesn't make the proper reads. Jefferson looks downfield for far too short a time period, takes too deep a drop and holds the ball too long.
Neither of these guys (to date) have the "it" to lead us to a championship. But like someone else said earlier, there is a good chance they will only improve and one of them should be able to take the step up.
If I were Miles, I wouldn't let my impression of Lee be too tainted by the 2008, thrown into the fire 19 year-old kid. And the same is true for Jefferson in 2009. I'd like to see how they have progressed by the fall.
17 divided by 11.5 = 1.48 TD passes per game.
Look this is inexact stuff. Trying to use stats is dubious. We have two QBs to date who are very flawed. Lee misses defenders and doesn't make the proper reads. Jefferson looks downfield for far too short a time period, takes too deep a drop and holds the ball too long.
Neither of these guys (to date) have the "it" to lead us to a championship. But like someone else said earlier, there is a good chance they will only improve and one of them should be able to take the step up.
If I were Miles, I wouldn't let my impression of Lee be too tainted by the 2008, thrown into the fire 19 year-old kid. And the same is true for Jefferson in 2009. I'd like to see how they have progressed by the fall.
Posted on 7/27/10 at 3:32 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:WTF is this? Can't analyze the facts so your work with smoke and mirrors? Miles never said it was the best line in the Miles era, certainly not after the fact. Nobody ever said it was best line of the Miles era. To the contrary, there is near unanimous agreement that the o-line had problems.
Yeah, that's all it was. The O line. So the offensive line regressed despite it being one of the best in the Miles era???
But go ahead and ignore the truth, spin the facts, and bash on JJ.
Perhaps you should buy one of these:
quote:I hope Lee plays well. I'm sure he's improved. But bashing on JJ will not get Lee a start. And the sad truth of it is that every Lee thread that I have read starts with a bashing of JJ.
Just like Jefferson and Miles, you need to give Lee the benefit of the doubt too. He may end up getting significant playing time this year.
Posted on 7/27/10 at 3:38 pm to just me
quote:
But bashing on JJ will not get Lee a start. And the sad truth of it is that every Lee thread that I have read starts with a bashing of JJ.
I agree with this. Although it is hard to argue that the incumbent should be replaced without dissing him a little. There's a reason no one is calling for Ron Brooks over Patrick Peterson. It's not because Brooks is a bad DB, it's that Peterson is a great player who should never leave the field. JJ is no PP.
And, on the flip side, it's hard for a Jefferson supporter to not have that opinion based on the fact that they think Lee is a WORSE alternative for the pick sixes, misreads and tendency to have some really inaccurate games.
Hopefully, they progress this offseason.
This post was edited on 7/27/10 at 3:40 pm
Posted on 7/27/10 at 3:39 pm to TIsuGGER
quote:
Those 7 pick sixes were returned for a total of 301 yards.
Let that sink in. A lot of people quit on those plays for that to happen.
expecting an offensive player to make a tackle is your first mistake.. they play on that side of the ball for a reason, if you dont want to run the risk of your interception being taken to the house then dont throw it in the first place.. JLee has nobody to blame for those pick 6s but himself
Posted on 7/27/10 at 3:43 pm to King Mello
quote:
expecting an offensive player to make a tackle is your first mistake.. they play on that side of the ball for a reason, if you dont want to run the risk of your interception being taken to the house then dont throw it in the first place
Well of course. But do you not realize that some of the 7 interceptions JJ threw last season were as bad as some of those pick sixes but Jefferson was fotunate to have the defender fall down or get tackled.
A pick six in the flat is entirely on the QB. A pick thrown 25 yards down the middle of the field is on the QB, but if it's returned for a TD, that's not on him (well maybe 1/11th on him).
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