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Message
re: Is Coach O going to "Make LSU Football Great Again!"?
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:10 pm to Rickdaddy4188
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:10 pm to Rickdaddy4188
I guess direct questions are simply something you're incapable of answering.
explain how. what experience does that coordinator have putting together a staff? what experience does that coach have managing a program? what experience does that coach have disciplining players? what experience does that coach have recruiting? what experience does that coach have dealing with boosters and school administrators? Simply running an offense does not make someone a viable head coaching hire. Do you ever wonder why some coaches are successful coordinators their entire careers and never get a HC offer?
I absolutely "get it." Based on your posting history, you seem incapable thinking outside the box or looking at the bigger picture. You like to reference raw stats without context. You are flat out incapable of stating an opinion and forming a coherent and well thought out argument.
Saying, Orgeron had a bad record at Ole Miss so he will be bad at LSU is a lazy argument. What resources did he have to work with at Ole Miss? What was his budget for his coaching staff? What was his competition like? What type of draw was Ole Miss compared to his competition? Fact is, Orgeron has been around MAJOR P5 programs for decades. He's coached at Miami, USC, Tennessee and LSU. he's also coached in the NFL.
Now, let's take Herman. Sure he had success under Urban Meyer as an OC. He was also blessed with coaching under the 2nd best coach in America with top 5 recruiting classes every year. Urban Meyer also ran successful offenses without Tom Herman and has since he left. Herman then went to Houston, who, as a mid major, has always been very successful. They also recruit in one of the biggest hot beds in the country. However, Herman is very young and has never had the responsibility of running a major program. Two years at Houston and a few at Ohio State, sure they're promising, but he is still a gamble. He was not worth the price tag at this stage in his career.
Now, I know it will be difficult for you, but please take the time (you clearly have it) to name a few candidates and explain in just minor detail why they would be good candidate to run a major college football program and why they would be less of a risk than Ed Orgeron.
quote:
Any successful coordinator has proven more than Coach O.
explain how. what experience does that coordinator have putting together a staff? what experience does that coach have managing a program? what experience does that coach have disciplining players? what experience does that coach have recruiting? what experience does that coach have dealing with boosters and school administrators? Simply running an offense does not make someone a viable head coaching hire. Do you ever wonder why some coaches are successful coordinators their entire careers and never get a HC offer?
I absolutely "get it." Based on your posting history, you seem incapable thinking outside the box or looking at the bigger picture. You like to reference raw stats without context. You are flat out incapable of stating an opinion and forming a coherent and well thought out argument.
Saying, Orgeron had a bad record at Ole Miss so he will be bad at LSU is a lazy argument. What resources did he have to work with at Ole Miss? What was his budget for his coaching staff? What was his competition like? What type of draw was Ole Miss compared to his competition? Fact is, Orgeron has been around MAJOR P5 programs for decades. He's coached at Miami, USC, Tennessee and LSU. he's also coached in the NFL.
Now, let's take Herman. Sure he had success under Urban Meyer as an OC. He was also blessed with coaching under the 2nd best coach in America with top 5 recruiting classes every year. Urban Meyer also ran successful offenses without Tom Herman and has since he left. Herman then went to Houston, who, as a mid major, has always been very successful. They also recruit in one of the biggest hot beds in the country. However, Herman is very young and has never had the responsibility of running a major program. Two years at Houston and a few at Ohio State, sure they're promising, but he is still a gamble. He was not worth the price tag at this stage in his career.
Now, I know it will be difficult for you, but please take the time (you clearly have it) to name a few candidates and explain in just minor detail why they would be good candidate to run a major college football program and why they would be less of a risk than Ed Orgeron.
0
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:12 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
He wouldve at least gambled his future on a coach that has prove he can run the offense and that he can run a program
2 years does not prove you can run a program. Gene Chizik and Larry Coker looked pretty charming after 2 years.
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:13 pm to lsufball19
quote:
Herman has two years experience as a HC, one successful the other not so successful.
Really! You want to compare Herman's head coaching experience and results with that of O? You really want to do that?
quote:
No, LSU hiring Orgeron was not a bigger gamble
If texas didn't hire Herman, another power five school would. If LSU doesn't O as a head coach, no other school would.
If you don't think O isn't a big time gamble, I want some of you what are drinking. I might need it next season!
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:15 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
Are you really saying hiring a coach that has never proven he can run a program is considered just as good a hire as hiring a coach that proven he can win national titles?
when did I say that?
quote:
When CfB programs are deemed to have made a good hire its because of what the coach has already accomplished.
not if those hires do not pan out. They are still viewed as poor hires. The optics on the front end don't matter on the back end if they don't pan out.
quote:
Saban was a homerun hire because he had proven to be an elite dc in the nfl and an elite hc in cfb.
Saban was far from a proven elite HC when LSU hired him. He was a homerun hire because he was an up and coming head coach LSU took a gamble on and it paid off.
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:18 pm to LSU Groupee
quote:
If texas didn't hire Herman, another power five school would.
if Texas hadn't shown interest, LSu would have hired him and prayed to God it didn't blow up in their face with the price tag that came with him.
quote:
If you don't think O isn't a big time gamble
I think any hire that was realistic was a big time gamble given you were replacing a coach that had won 115 games in 11+ years. There's no dancing around that. Coaching hires, in general, are big time gambles. There are really only two sure thing hires, one is at Alabama and one is at Ohio State
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:19 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
He wouldve at least gambled his future on a coach that has prove he can run the offense and that he can run a program. At this point Coach O has done neither.
He would have risked or committed career suicide by hiring an offensive genius who could only muster 303 total yards against SMU in a 38-16 loss while favored to win by 23. A guy who finished the season in the AAC at 4-3 losing to less talented teams in Navy, SMU and Memphis.
A guy who hit a home run his first year taking over a good program from a coach who was fired after having two seasons in a row with winning records. A guy who did worse in his second year with the same program.
That would have been a stupid hire and I glad Alleva had enough sense to get the hell out when "one-year-wonder" wanted to re-negotiate.
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:22 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
Arguing in circles are we? You seemed to think Bama and the other two schools you listed WOULD NEVER hire a position coach as their head coac
Bama hired one while WHILE THEY WERE ON PROBATION and immediately regretted it.Im still waiting on these successful hcs that never were a successful coordinator or hc.
quote:
It was a simple and quick search to find one
During probation. Thats not an excuse its a fact.
quote:
I con't care if you have his dental records, he was Alabama's D-line coach when Alabama hired him to be their head coach. Just like Coach O was hired from D-Line coach to be LSU's head coach.
And had a horrible tenure.
If lsu is on probation then sure hire a career position coach.
quote:
I get it, you hate Coach O and don't want his as head coach.
I never knew that stating facts about someone means you hate them.
quote:
on the other hand like Coach O and after the changes that have been evident with the LSU program since he has been in charge I am damn glad he is the coach.
Then you're part of the reason we will never reach Bama's level of success. Bama's fans would flip there shite if they hired a 55 year old career position coach.
quote:
You asked for position coaches who were promoted by major programs to head coach. You got them, quit crawdadding.
And neither one had an elite tenure.
quote:
ou asked for position coaches who were
I asked for you to name one other career position coach that has won a title or had a successful tenure.
quote:
Hey do me a favor and list another career position coach that has won a national title as head coach.
Reading comprehension is your friend.
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:26 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
That would have been a stupid hire and I glad Alleva had enough sense to get the hell out when "one-year-wonder" wanted to re-negotiate.
It's not hard to find one hit wonder coaches that have found their way into big time coaching jobs only to fail. Alleva had the task of not only replacing a NC winning HC but also dealing with Miles' buyout and battling the political optics of paying tens of millions of dollars on a HC in the midst of the budget crisis in the LSU system. So he would be resting his career on throwing 30 million dollars on a young coach that has 3 years total even coaching at a P5 school. Alleva has enough on his plate with Johnny Jones and his general ineptness as an AD to compound his job security issues by hiring a guy that very well may fall on his face. Texas doesn't have that problem and has the deepest pockets in the NCAA. Money is no object to them. They can afford to make a 30 million dollar mistake.
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:29 pm to LSU Groupee
quote:
Really! You want to compare Herman's head coaching experience and results with that of O? You really want to do that?
Recent results? Yes. Herman finished 4-3 this year in the same time span CEO was going 6-2. Herman only has 3 losses because he didn't coach in the UH bowl game. His last game was a loss to Memphis.
quote:
If LSU doesn't O as a head coach, no other school would.
You are making shite up now because there is no way to know if this is true or not since he was hired by LSU the day after the regular season ended.
quote:
If you don't think O isn't a big time gamble, I want some of you what are drinking. I might need it next season!
You should have kept watching LSU football after Miles was fired. If you had then you may be intelligent enough to realize that Coach O is not a "big time" gamble.
All you need next season is to pay attention to the LSU football games. You will get to see the best defense in the nation and what should be a much improved offense.
This post was edited on 1/23/17 at 11:30 pm
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:29 pm to LSU2THEMAX
no one expects Herman to have a good class at Texas because of the firing of Strong.
Give O the same benefit of a full cycle to recruit.
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:30 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
He would have risked or committed career suicide by hiring an offensive genius who could only muster 303 total yards against SMU in a 38-16 loss while favored to win by 23.
I love when football ignorant posters talk themselves into a corner.
So you think its better to risk his career on a 55 year old career dline coach that has never ran a successful offense, defense , or program?
Coach A
In his worst season as hc he had 9 wins.
Has been a very successful coordinator.
Has proven he can run a program.
quote:
Coach B
In 3 years as HC he won 10 games total.
Has never ran a successful offense.
Has never ran a successful defense.
Has never ran a successful program.
But yeah i can see how Coach A is a bigger gamble.
quote:
guy who hit a home run his first year taking over a good program from a coach who was fired after having two seasons in a row with winning recor
The irony in this post is glorious.
The only success Coach O has ever had has HC was interim jobs where the team was already built. You tout Orgeron's interim tenure yet you're trying to diminish Herman by saying he only won with another coach's players.
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:35 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:epitome of irony. You call out Herman for winning with another coach's players yet tout an interim tenure for coach o. Youre toutinga tenure where he didnt run the offense,defense, or call the plays.
Herman finished 4-3 this year in the same time span CEO was going 6-2.
quote:
You are making shite up now because there is no way to know if this is true or not since he was hired by LSU the day after the regular season ende
He wasnt even getting DC job offers.
Name another time where Ed Orgeron was listed as a top 5 candidate for DC or for HC.
quote:
You should have kept watching LSU football after Miles was fired. If you had then you may be intelligent enough to realize that Coach O is not a "big time" gamble.
What? Coach O wasnt running the offense.
Coach O wasnt running the defense.
Coach O wasnt calling plays.
Please enlighten as to what Coach O has done to remove doubt stemming from his ole miss tenure. Is it losing to a 14 point underdog at home while they were missing tons of defensive starters?
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:35 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
Then you're part of the reason we will never reach Bama's level of success.
LSU will never reach Bama's level of success because they don't have 100+ years of tradition on the level of Alabama. LSU didn't have Nick Saban fall into their laps after they were turned down by Rich Rodriguez. There is only 1 Nick Saban and he isn't coming back.
quote:
or had a successful tenure.
Frank Solich went 53-19 over 6 years. He was fired after a 9-3 season. Nebraska got arrogant and wanted Tom Osborne results and haven't recovered since. Frank Solich was the RB coach for Nebraska before being promoted to HC. He went: 9-4, 12-1, 10-2, 11-2, 7-7, and 9-3 as HC. Since they fired him, they have not won a single conference title.
No one has disputed it is rare. You made a statement that no blue blood program would ever promote a position coach to head coach. Regardless of why, that is an incorrect statement.
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:37 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
I love when football ignorant posters talk themselves into a corner.
you should know all about itPosted on 1/23/17 at 11:38 pm to lsufball19
He's going to build a border wall around the state and lock it down so that nobody leaves the state to play for another university.
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:38 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
Has never ran a successful offense.
Has never ran a successful defense.
Has never ran a successful program.
for the love of god, and I don't want to be that guy, but it is "has never RUN a successful program." TIA
This post was edited on 1/23/17 at 11:40 pm
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:41 pm to lsufball19
quote:
Frank Solich went 53-19 over 6 years. He was fired after a 9-3 season. Nebraska got arrogant and wanted Tom Osborne results and haven't recovered since. Frank Solich was the RB coach for Nebraska before being promoted to HC. He went: 9-4, 12-1, 10-2, 11-2, 7-7, and 9-3 as HC. Since they fired him, they have not won a single conference title.
He didnt win a national title.
Thats the point. He used Dabo as an example and i asked for another one.
quote:
There is only 1 Nick Saban and he isn't coming back.
I know that. That doesnt mean we shouldn't strive to reach that level.
quote:
Frank Solich was the RB coach for Nebraska before being promoted to HC. He went: 9-4, 12-1, 10-2, 11-2, 7-7, and 9-3 as HC. Since they fired him, they have not won a single conference title.
He was the Head coach of the freshman team for 3 years prior to that.
quote:
No one has disputed it is rare. You made a statement that no blue blood program would ever promote a position coach to head coach. Regardless of why, that is an incorrect statement.
Ok. No blue blood that wasnt on probation would hire a 55 year old career position coach.
Im still waiting on you and Ree to answer these questions.....
Would Bama have Ed Orgeron in their top 10 candidates as HC?
Would Ohio St have Ed Orgeron in their top 10 candidates?
Would Ed Orgeron get a DC job offer from any successful big time program?
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:41 pm to CelticDog
quote:
no one expects Herman to have a good class at Texas because of the firing of Strong.
Actually they did. It is the Texas freaking Longhorns and they just happen to be located in Texas. An A&M fan posted on the More Sports board today that Herm has gotten 9 commits since he has been at UT. He said 7 of them are 3 stars who wouldn't have expected to get offers from UT normally.
Herman did only move maybe two hours away from a recruiting hotbed in Houston and moved to a perennial recruits-itself-fabulously school and is not having the success expected.
These are posts from last month with quotes from UT fans about Herman's recruiting prowess.
https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/display.aspx?sp=67706023&s=2&p=67693498#67706023
https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/display.aspx?sp=67706215&s=2&p=67693498#67706215
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:46 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
He didnt win a national title.
Thats the point. He used Dabo as an example and i asked for another one.
so what?
quote:
I know that. That doesnt mean we shouldn't strive to reach that level.
who says we aren't?
quote:running the freshman team is like being in charge of the scout team. That is not running a program or having HC experience. he was a career positional coach
He was the Head coach of the freshman team for 3 years prior to that.
quote:
Ok. No blue blood that wasnt on probation would hire a 55 year old career position coach.
oh, well when you put it that way
This post was edited on 1/24/17 at 12:13 am
Posted on 1/23/17 at 11:49 pm to lsufball19
quote:
when did I say that?
You said hired are considered good only after the results.
quote:
not if those hires do not pan out. They are still viewed as poor hires. The optics on the front end don't matter on the back end if they don't pan out.
Wow. They most certainly do. If an AD gambles on a less qualified coach and that coach fails then the AD will be viewed worse than if the AD hires a proven coach. Thats why you dont see position coaches get promoted to HC at big time programs. ADs dont like to bet their career's on an unproven coach.
quote:
Saban was far from a proven elite HC when LSU hired him
He had proven to be an elite DC in the nfl. He was the DC at Cleveland and had them the #1 defense in the nfl his last year. Cleveland.
He then went to mich. St that was on probation and his last year they finished #7.
Saban had a far far far far better resume than Coach O.
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