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Message
re: I really don't understand some of our fans. I need some answers.
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:24 pm to just me
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:24 pm to just me
quote:
Did you not notice that our QB was exceptionally green at the beginning of the 2008 season and at the beginning of the 2009 season?
JJ was a veteran when he started the 2009 season. People criticize me for saying this all the time, but in my mind, he wasn't even close to properly described as "green."
quote:
Do you not think that LSU would have had a much better record in 2008 and in 2009 if Ryan Perrilloux had been playing QB?
Yes, I do not think that. LSU might have beaten Bama & Arkansas in 2008, but that's only 2 games. The defense was so bad that the other losses were out of reach no matter who the QB was.
The offensive coaching was so bad in 2009 that any QB would have done poorly as well. You can say that the deterioration in coaching was due to the uproar over Lee's interceptions in 2008 (and you would be correct), but the fact remains that the offensive coaching was horrendous.
I do not think Perrilloux would have won the games against Florida or Alabama or Penn State. Ole Miss might have been a little different, but then again, probably not. The 2009 record would have likely been exactly the same. Sorry, but there you have it.
quote:
Do you not think that Les Miles made the right decision in dismissing Ryan Perrilloux?
Yes, he did, but he made a poor choice in keeping Odom on the team for too long, which affected Perrilloux in a negative way.
quote:
What is the greatest difference between 2005-2007 and 2008-2009? Is it the coaching staff or the talent at significant positions?
You can't look at 2008 & 2009 together like that, because they're totally different scenarios. In one year, the defense was almost completely to blame, and in the other, the offense was almost completely to blame.
I will say this: the 2009 offensive coaching staff did an absolutely atrocious job of making the best out of the hand they were dealt. They had a few positional weaknesses in terms of talent, but they also caused very talented players to play like crap both on the line, and among the "skilled" players. There really should be nobody defending the offensive staff for how badly they performed. It was the worst offensive coaching job I've seen in 3 decades of watching LSU football. They get an F-.
quote:
Do you not believe that LSU will improve at those positions in 2010 and 2011? Why do you refuse to acknowledge the obvious?
LSU will improve at positions, and this will help, but like I wrote above, this is not the true problem. I do think that Gonzales will help, though. How much so will remain undetermined until next fall. If he pulls things together and LSU is able to achieve basic competency, there is no good reason why LSU can't win an SEC title in 2010.
quote:
Have you not seen the talent LSU is bringing in this year and next year?
Yes. The program is not in decline, and that's a good thing. The coaching the last couple of years is still inexcusable though. There's no getting around that.
3
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:29 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:yes, but you usually don't have to replace a player after year 2.
Yes. It's college football. Players play for a while, then they move on and you have to replace them. Usually, the replacements aren't very experienced.
quote:And yet, even good programs have rebuilding years.
If you are a good program, you find a way to replace players and still have good seasons.
quote:Experience isn't the touchstone. QB play relies on maturity and experience. I assume that you realize the difference in ages between 2009 and either 2007 or 2005 even though you failed to mention it.
By the way, there was more starting QB experience on the roster going into 2009 than there was going into either 2007 or 2005.
quote:Defense was a problem in 2008, but don't you think RP at QB would have won the Bama game? Don't you think that not starting the game with pick sixes might have had an affect on LSU's record?
No, it wouldn't have made much difference, if any, in 2008. Defense was the biggest problem that year.
quote:And the cycle is reversing itself.
We had more great players in 2005-2007 than we did in 2008 and 2009.
quote:Than you do refuse to acknowledge the obvious.
Nope. We will not improve in 2010 or 2011. Individual players might at some positions, but as a team, we will not improve.
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:32 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:
JJ was a veteran when he started the 2009 season. People criticize me for saying this all the time, but in my mind, he wasn't even close to properly described as "green."
A true sophomore with, what, 2 career starts, is somehow a "veteran?"
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:34 pm to Cold Cous Cous
quote:
A true sophomore with, what, 2 career starts, is somehow a "veteran?"
Technically, yest. Also see my earlier post regarding RP. The whole RP things has become an inexcusable "excuse."
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:37 pm to just me
certainly that's the reason. college football is about turnover and the two positons you have to turn over in the sec are qb and cb, if you can turn over solid, 3 or 4 year guys at cb or qb, your program is in good shape. just look at the solid programs around in the sec. and dont forget that after fla won a nc in 06, in tim tebow's first year as a starter, 9 and 4, lost a bowl game to michagin.
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:38 pm to Cold Cous Cous
Yes. Obviously. Especially for a guy who played in 7 or 8 games, and had an entire bowl season to prepare as the #1 starter.
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:40 pm to just me
i believe we have underachieved every year under miles. even the national championship we lost games we shouldn't have'd. but so did lil nick. nick underachieved every year too. i think, barring a five loss season,les has to stay next year to keep next year's recruiting class intact.
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:40 pm to just me
quote:
Progress. Anyone with two eyes saw progress.
Where? In what way did he progress? His inability to step into the pocket or scramble AWAY from pressure instead of into it or get rid of the ball to avoid a sack lost the Ole Miss game. That was the Ole Miss game. The 11th fricking game of the season. His 12th career start.
His inability to comprehend that with 30 seconds left, no time outs and down by two around midfield, you don't throw a fricking 2-yard pass in the middle of the field lost the Penn State game. That was the Penn State game, the 13th game of the season, and his 14th career start. More starts than Matt Flynn had in his entire career.
Where is the progress?
quote:
That players get better as they mature, particularly at the QB position.
Do yourself a favor. Make a list of every player that was on the roster for the 2008 Appalachian State game and the 2009 Penn State game. That list will probably have over 40 players on it. Then evaluate each name on that list and see which ones got better from the Appalachian State game to the Penn State game. If you're honest, there won't be 10 names on that list.
quote:
He's done a very good job the past three years, and LSU will become the beneficiary of Miles' hard work this year. However, we missed RP in 2008 and 2009.
Either he's done a good job in recruiting and we could survive the loss of ONE frickING PLAYER without going into the toilet for two years, or he's done a poor job and the loss of ONE frickING PLAYER turned a national championship caliber team into a .500 SEC team. One of those is true, but they can't both be.
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:48 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:
Obviously
It's obviously not "obvious" because many people would disagree. Just because you say something is "obvious" doesn't make it so.
quote:By this definition, any freshman who plays special teams, then participates in bowl practices, is a "veteran" by the time New Years' Day rolls around. If that's how you want to define it, fine, but it renders the word "veteran" meaningless as it doesn't make a distinction between a fifth year senior with 40 starts and a sophomore with 2 starts.
had an entire bowl season to prepare as the #1 starter.
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:50 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:JJ was very green in 2009. He was a true sophomore with little playing time in 2008.
JJ was a veteran when he started the 2009 season. People criticize me for saying this all the time, but in my mind, he wasn't even close to properly described as "green."
quote:You can't see how a few less pick sixes might have made a difference in the Florida and Georgia games. In any event, you admit that LSU would have won 10 games in 2008. That's a significant difference from winning just 8 games.
Yes, I do not think that. LSU might have beaten Bama & Arkansas in 2008, but that's only 2 games. The defense was so bad that the other losses were out of reach no matter who the QB was.
quote:Well at least you admit that having JJ instead of RP changed the offensive philosophy. Considering how close the Bama, Ole Miss, and Penn State games were, the difference between RP and JJ would have made a significant difference in the outcomes of those games. I don't know how you can honestly say the Ole Miss game would probably have been the same. Come on. Again, another 10 win season.
The offensive coaching was so bad in 2009 that any QB would have done poorly as well. You can say that the deterioration in coaching was due to the uproar over Lee's interceptions in 2008 (and you would be correct), but the fact remains that the offensive coaching was horrendous.
I do not think Perrilloux would have won the games against Florida or Alabama or Penn State. Ole Miss might have been a little different, but then again, probably not. The 2009 record would have likely been exactly the same. Sorry, but there you have it.
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:50 pm to Cold Cous Cous
quote:
but it renders the word "veteran" meaningless
Hardly. A vet is a vet.
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:51 pm to jrich11
quote:
dont forget that after fla won a nc in 06, in tim tebow's first year as a starter, 9 and 4, lost a bowl game to michagin.
Yes. ONE down year. Not two (and counting).
This Ryan Perrilloux excuse has just gotten ridiculous. If it is impossible to succeed without Ryan Perrilloux on your fricking roster, then we are fricked forever, because he will NEVER be on our roster again. But then, how in the hell did Florida and Alabama win the last two national championships without EVER having him on the roster? Jesus fricking Christ, people. He's one god-damned player. I don't care if he is a fricking quarterback, he's one god-damned player. You replace him, you develop the guy that steps in, and you move the frick on. You don't go from NC caliber to .500 in the SEC for two fricking years.
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:55 pm to just me
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:55 pm to just me
quote:
You can't see how a few less pick sixes might have made a difference in the Florida and Georgia games.
quote:
Considering how close the Bama, Ole Miss, and Penn State games were, the difference between RP and JJ would have made a significant difference in the outcomes of those games.
Hold on, there. You're making a lot of assumptions that are unwarranted. Bama's defense was smothering everybody, JJ was not really the problem in the PSU game, and Ole Miss & PSU both played very conservatively.
It's true that JJ did not play well against Ole Miss, but the bulk of the problems with the offense did not originate with him. The whole offense was getting murdered that game until the last few minutes. All kinds of strange things happened. Maybe PP doesn't return a FG attempt for a TD if RP starts. Maybe RP isn't as good as JJ at engineering last-minute drives. Who really knows?
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:56 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:No. There is are other options. You just refuse to see them or accept them. He recruited well, and, due to unforeseen reasons, had to start a first year player in 2008 and in 2009. There were some other problems as well, but no team wins every game every year.
Either he's done a good job in recruiting and we could survive the loss of ONE frickING PLAYER without going into the toilet for two years, or he's done a poor job and the loss of ONE frickING PLAYER turned a national championship caliber team into a .500 SEC team. One of those is true, but they can't both be.
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:57 pm to Cold Cous Cous
quote:
If that's how you want to define it, fine, but it renders the word "veteran" meaningless as it doesn't make a distinction between a fifth year senior with 40 starts and a sophomore with 2 starts.
Going into the Penn State game, Jordan Jefferson had as many starts as Matt Flynn had in his entire career, plus two full bowl seasons (15 practices?), one spring practice season, one fall practice season and an entire 12-game regular season as the clear-cut #1 starter. If Matt Flynn were our starter going into next season, would you call him a "veteran"? He has started fewer games for LSU than Jordan Jefferson has.
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:58 pm to Doc Fenton
So you don't make any distinction whatsoever between a fifth year senior with 40 starts and a sophomore with 2 starts?
I knew you were obstinate. I didn't think you were stupid.
I knew you were obstinate. I didn't think you were stupid.
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:59 pm to Cold Cous Cous
You're a real piece of shite, you know that? Why don't you discuss the general points being made in this thread rather than getting over-involved in a meaningless semantic argument, which by the way, you are losing horribly.
Posted on 1/26/10 at 1:00 pm to just me
quote:
No. There is are other options. You just refuse to see them or accept them. He recruited well, and, due to unforeseen reasons, had to start a first year player in 2008 and in 2009. There were some other problems as well, but no team wins every game every year.
Putting your future in the hands of RP is absolutely a fireable offense IMO. Having a RP contingency should have been priority one in the Les Miles playbook. If you folks want to keep going down the "last two years are RP's fault" road I will continue to play the contingency plan card.
Posted on 1/26/10 at 1:02 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
If you folks want to keep going down the "last two years are RP's fault" road I will continue to play the contingency plan card.
In fairness to Les, it was very tough to get a blue chip QB to come here in 2006 with the hype Perrilloux got in 2005. We managed to get one in 2007 though, his name is Jarrett Lee.
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