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Message
re: “George Pickens is much more talented than Justin Jefferson”
Posted on 8/16/23 at 9:06 pm to TheDrunkenTigah
Posted on 8/16/23 at 9:06 pm to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:
Speed at the elite level Jefferson has cannot be developed because it’s a result of his ability to accelerate, which he was born with in the form of fast twitch muscle fibers.
What? Yes, people’s speed ceilings are largely inborn, and Jefferson has much more speed talent than an average Joe. But for things like the 40, the difference between Pickens’ and JJ’s times could be explained almost completely by technique. And you can add a good number of inches to your vertical by increasing your squat max. 
2
Posted on 8/16/23 at 9:15 pm to TheMuffinMan
quote:
But for things like the 40, the difference between Pickens’ and JJ’s times could be explained almost completely by technique.
Which is exactly what I just said. Not sure if you’re being obtuse to save face or just contrarian, but talent at the wide receiver position is not straight line speed, it’s the inherent and natural ability to accelerate and change direction quickly, which Jefferson has because of his body composition.
Posted on 8/16/23 at 9:16 pm to TheMuffinMan
Jefferson’s cutting ability and change of direction, combined with his body control, hands, and work ethic are what make him elite.
Posted on 8/16/23 at 9:36 pm to TheDrunkenTigah
This is what you replied to:
I obviously didn’t mean developed out of thin air; I meant developed beyond the starting point, i.e the talent level. I’ll invite you to reconsider whether you actually disagree with that and whether your response added anything useful.
What you’d “just said” was blindly confrontational nonsense. I hope to God I didn’t repeat it exactly.
quote:
Since speed and weight can be developed with pure effort, most intelligent discussion of these traits concedes that talent disparities are the major determinant of potential, which is always going to be a major topic of interest with young players.
I obviously didn’t mean developed out of thin air; I meant developed beyond the starting point, i.e the talent level. I’ll invite you to reconsider whether you actually disagree with that and whether your response added anything useful.
quote:
Which is exactly what I just said.
What you’d “just said” was blindly confrontational nonsense. I hope to God I didn’t repeat it exactly.
Posted on 8/16/23 at 10:06 pm to jorconalx
Exactly my point
Posted on 8/16/23 at 10:21 pm to TheMuffinMan
quote:
I obviously didn’t mean developed out of thin air; I meant developed beyond the starting point, i.e the talent level. I’ll invite you to reconsider whether you actually disagree with that and whether your response added anything useful.
Get over yourself dude, I quoted that statement because the implication of it by you is that despite Jefferson’s combine numbers, he is somehow ambiguously less talented than Pickens, and that talent itself is completely independent of speed or weight because a fat dude can shave a second off his 40 or gain a few lbs of muscle by lifting. In Jefferson’s case his inborn ability to combine speed and weight are why he is talented. His ability to stop, start, and accelerate relative to his frame cannot be taught or learned, and is the definition of natural talent for a wide receiver, which is the entire point of the thread.
quote:
blindly confrontational nonsense
And saying Pickens is more talented cause he can bench more isn’t?
Posted on 8/16/23 at 11:10 pm to TheDrunkenTigah
I think Pickens is more talented with respect to hands and press physicality only, which I said explicitly in addition to various other detailed expansions on my position.
Some component of his agility/body control is inborn, but your statement is absurd on its face. You can greatly manipulate your body’s ability to produce force, your range of motion, your weight, your body composition, your bone density, etc. You can also improve your technique and efficiency in various patterns of motion. Working on all of those things in combination could wildly improve someone’s agility and suddenness and is a lucrative industry called sports training.
quote:
His ability to stop, start, and accelerate relative to his frame cannot be taught or learned
Some component of his agility/body control is inborn, but your statement is absurd on its face. You can greatly manipulate your body’s ability to produce force, your range of motion, your weight, your body composition, your bone density, etc. You can also improve your technique and efficiency in various patterns of motion. Working on all of those things in combination could wildly improve someone’s agility and suddenness and is a lucrative industry called sports training.
Posted on 8/16/23 at 11:42 pm to TheMuffinMan
quote:
Working on all of those things in combination could wildly improve someone’s agility and suddenness and is a lucrative industry called sports training.
So let me get this straight.
Justin Jefferson is one of two or three guys on the planet who had the bright idea, money, and exclusive access to people that could teach him the perfect training regiment that allows him to basically teleport on the field, making him a top 3 receiver in the NFL, despite being born with less talent. A kid from Destrahan has cracked the code to training your way to the very pinnacle of the position, despite all odds.
George Pickens simultaneously makes interesting catches and beats press man not because of repetitions on a jugs machine and raising his bench max, but because he popped out of the womb being able to catch a football at weird angles and lift heavy things.
You see how fricking dumb that sounds?
Posted on 8/17/23 at 4:54 am to TheMuffinMan
quote:
I’m apparently trying to define “talent” for a board who mistakes it for some combination of production and measurables.
So if what he’s capable of doing & what hes actually doing doesn’t define “Talent” what does exactly?
This post was edited on 8/17/23 at 4:55 am
Posted on 8/17/23 at 7:40 am to RightWingTiger
Racist Ryan got seven pages of replies. Mission accomplished
Posted on 8/17/23 at 8:21 am to TheDrunkenTigah
I see exactly how dumb your straw man argument sounds
The concept of “talent” as opposed to “skill” seems to elude you, but at least you’ve got plenty of company.
The concept of “talent” as opposed to “skill” seems to elude you, but at least you’ve got plenty of company.
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