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CEO and the talent debate
Posted on 8/11/18 at 5:16 pm
Posted on 8/11/18 at 5:16 pm
Prior to Les' firing many LSU fans complained that Les was wasting all the talent that he had recruited. According to the Rant, there should be no way a LSU coach should lose to an inferior team with way less talent. So when CEO lost to the likes of Troy, CEO was not held to the same standard as Les Miles. Why?
Since CEO has taken over, many are stating CEO has to rebuild the talent due to Les leaving the cupboard bare. That outlook seems contrary to the ideas held by most people on the Rant previous to CEO's hire. A closer look into the facts will help end the debate. In 2017 LSU had 8 NFL draftees and in 2018 LSU had 7 NFL draftees.
2017 Draftees
RD 1 RB - Fournette
RD 1 S - Adams
RD 1 CB - White
RD 2 OL - Pocic
RD 3 LB - Riley
RD 3 LB - Beckwith
RD 5 DL - Godchaux
RD 7 WR - Dupre
2018 Draftees
RD 2 CB - Jackson
RD 2 RB - Guice
RD 2 WR - Chark
RD 3 DL - Key
RD 6 WR - Gage
RD 7 QB - Etling
RD 7 OL - Clapp
As you can see from the above list, there are 8 draftees on the offensive and 7 on the defensive side of the ball from the last two years. Two of the offensive guys were from the O-line. Looking on both sides of the ball and you will see that there is a fair representation from all position groups:
2 LB
2 DL
2 CB
1 S
2 OL
2 RB
3 WR
1 QB
Since 2014, Les has had at least one OL drafted in each NFL draft except 2015.
What about Les' recruiting? I'll go back to 2013 and through 2016 to show a representation of the players CEO inherited from Les Miles.
2013 Recruiting Class - 6th Nation
20 Four Stars
8 Three Star
5 NFL Draftees
2014 Recruiting Class - 2nd Nation
4 Five Stars
12 Four Stars
8 Three Stars
7 NFL Draftees
2015 Recruiting Class - 5th Nation
3 Five Stars
10 Four Stars
9 Three Stars
4 NFL Draftees (Some still enrolled at LSU)
2016 Recruiting Class - 2nd Nation
2 Five Stars
15 Four Stars
9 Three Stars
0 NFL Draftees (Not Eligible until 2019 Draft)
2017 Recruiting Class - 7th Nation
1 Five Star
14 Four Star
9 Three Star
0 NFL Draftees (Not Eligible until 2020 Draft)
Committed after Les Firing:
Lowell Narcisse
Racey McMath
Jacob Phillips
K'Lavon Chaisson
Todd Harris
Tyler Taylor
Before Les left in 2016, he had a top 7 class working while CEO held onto and added some valuable pieces.
So it is fair to say that Les was a good recruiter and supplied the coaching staff with plenty of talent. It is either disingenuous, lying, or ignorant of the facts to say that Les left the cupboard bare for CEO. There was no rebuilding to be done by CEO. This is a false narrative being painted by individuals for fallacious reasons. As clearly as the facts show the cupboard is full, CEO should be held to the same standard as Les Miles. We reload at LSU! We don't rebuild. CEO should win championships now based on the cupboard being full!
Since CEO has taken over, many are stating CEO has to rebuild the talent due to Les leaving the cupboard bare. That outlook seems contrary to the ideas held by most people on the Rant previous to CEO's hire. A closer look into the facts will help end the debate. In 2017 LSU had 8 NFL draftees and in 2018 LSU had 7 NFL draftees.
2017 Draftees
RD 1 RB - Fournette
RD 1 S - Adams
RD 1 CB - White
RD 2 OL - Pocic
RD 3 LB - Riley
RD 3 LB - Beckwith
RD 5 DL - Godchaux
RD 7 WR - Dupre
2018 Draftees
RD 2 CB - Jackson
RD 2 RB - Guice
RD 2 WR - Chark
RD 3 DL - Key
RD 6 WR - Gage
RD 7 QB - Etling
RD 7 OL - Clapp
As you can see from the above list, there are 8 draftees on the offensive and 7 on the defensive side of the ball from the last two years. Two of the offensive guys were from the O-line. Looking on both sides of the ball and you will see that there is a fair representation from all position groups:
2 LB
2 DL
2 CB
1 S
2 OL
2 RB
3 WR
1 QB
Since 2014, Les has had at least one OL drafted in each NFL draft except 2015.
What about Les' recruiting? I'll go back to 2013 and through 2016 to show a representation of the players CEO inherited from Les Miles.
2013 Recruiting Class - 6th Nation
20 Four Stars
8 Three Star
5 NFL Draftees
2014 Recruiting Class - 2nd Nation
4 Five Stars
12 Four Stars
8 Three Stars
7 NFL Draftees
2015 Recruiting Class - 5th Nation
3 Five Stars
10 Four Stars
9 Three Stars
4 NFL Draftees (Some still enrolled at LSU)
2016 Recruiting Class - 2nd Nation
2 Five Stars
15 Four Stars
9 Three Stars
0 NFL Draftees (Not Eligible until 2019 Draft)
2017 Recruiting Class - 7th Nation
1 Five Star
14 Four Star
9 Three Star
0 NFL Draftees (Not Eligible until 2020 Draft)
Committed after Les Firing:
Lowell Narcisse
Racey McMath
Jacob Phillips
K'Lavon Chaisson
Todd Harris
Tyler Taylor
Before Les left in 2016, he had a top 7 class working while CEO held onto and added some valuable pieces.
So it is fair to say that Les was a good recruiter and supplied the coaching staff with plenty of talent. It is either disingenuous, lying, or ignorant of the facts to say that Les left the cupboard bare for CEO. There was no rebuilding to be done by CEO. This is a false narrative being painted by individuals for fallacious reasons. As clearly as the facts show the cupboard is full, CEO should be held to the same standard as Les Miles. We reload at LSU! We don't rebuild. CEO should win championships now based on the cupboard being full!
This post was edited on 8/11/18 at 5:40 pm
20
Posted on 8/11/18 at 5:36 pm to 4EverATiger12345
Agree. It’s a development issue, which begins at the coaches. Hoping some these good position coaches can fix that this year.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 5:42 pm to hsgeoboy
I don't quite understand why we don't have an individual coach at one of our most lacking performance positions: QB. It has been a thorn in our side for many years. I believe the OC should be free to roam while an individual focuses on the QBs only.
This post was edited on 8/11/18 at 5:44 pm
Posted on 8/11/18 at 5:45 pm to 4EverATiger12345
Yes, we must win now. Ive 0 tolerance for anything less than 10 & 2 reg season.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 5:45 pm to 4EverATiger12345
quote:
Prior to Les' firing many LSU fans complained that Les was wasting all the talent that he had recruited. According to the Rant, there should be no way a LSU coach should lose to an inferior team with way less talent. So when CEO lost to the likes of Troy, CEO was not held to the same standard as Les Miles. Why?
Whether or not we have talent changes as Orgeron loyalists need to make different points.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 5:48 pm to 4EverATiger12345
quote:
So when CEO lost to the likes of Troy, CEO was not held to the same standard as Les Miles
The hell he wasn't! He was, and still is, being lambasted for that loss and rightfully so. Your narrative in this regard is intellectually dishonest.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 5:49 pm to 4EverATiger12345
Good God, I didn't realize we did not have a dedicated QB coach?? How the hell are our guys ever going to get better?? It already feels hopeless.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 5:49 pm to jgriffith
quote:
10 & 2 reg season.
Last year was a wasted year in that regards. Ten Should've been minimum wins last year. We really had a shot at going 11-1 but easily 10-2.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 5:52 pm to kkv75
"Good God, I didn't realize we did not have a dedicated QB coach??"
You do realize that 6 of the top 7 teams have QB coaches and the last four years of NCAA champions do also. I haven't looked beyond four years or top 7 teams. Seems like we should have one considering it was our most glaring weakness in the last decade
You do realize that 6 of the top 7 teams have QB coaches and the last four years of NCAA champions do also. I haven't looked beyond four years or top 7 teams. Seems like we should have one considering it was our most glaring weakness in the last decade
This post was edited on 8/11/18 at 5:53 pm
Posted on 8/11/18 at 5:52 pm to beauxroux
Well granted, it's a little difficult to guess what the rant's reaction to Troy would've been under Miles because he never had a loss nearly that bad.
Miles got similar heat for losing to conference opponents so I cannot imagine what he would've been subjected to after losing to Troy.
Miles got similar heat for losing to conference opponents so I cannot imagine what he would've been subjected to after losing to Troy.
This post was edited on 8/11/18 at 5:54 pm
Posted on 8/11/18 at 5:55 pm to kkv75
quote:
didn't realize we did not have a dedicated QB coach?? How the hell are our guys ever going to get better?? It already feels hopeless.
Overreact much?
Posted on 8/11/18 at 5:55 pm to beauxroux
quote:
The hell he wasn't!
Then why are their excuses for lack of talent for CEO?
Posted on 8/11/18 at 6:01 pm to 4EverATiger12345
Our depth on the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball were depleted after Miles left. That's a fact. Orgeron recruited his assistant off at those positions and we now have quality depth there. He has utilized the transfers and the juco talent to get quality players that can contribute day 1 at lsu. Miles always recruited well, but we didn't have any depth at all on the lines, and it cost us games. Even aranda said our defensive line was depleted last year, it was obvious. We had to play 3 freshmen on the oline last season as well, which usually spells disaster, but they faired well given the inexperience against the opponents we played.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 6:02 pm to 4EverATiger12345
LEs got fired for not being a Len to adapt to his surroundings. Wasn’t big on developing players or have personnel depth. He was very loyal to his starters and coaching philosophy.
But the manner in which he was losing became unbearable. It’s like for 6 straight years Nick Sagan told Les that every year at the beginning of Nov. no matter the time or place I’m going to slap you in the face, and there’s nothing you’re going to do about it. It was like he got used to losing to Alabama and thought it was okay.
At the end of the day Les refused to adapt.
In regards to CEO, I believe he gets the big picture, the only question is can he execute his vision. And that’s TBD.
But the manner in which he was losing became unbearable. It’s like for 6 straight years Nick Sagan told Les that every year at the beginning of Nov. no matter the time or place I’m going to slap you in the face, and there’s nothing you’re going to do about it. It was like he got used to losing to Alabama and thought it was okay.
At the end of the day Les refused to adapt.
In regards to CEO, I believe he gets the big picture, the only question is can he execute his vision. And that’s TBD.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 6:05 pm to 4EverATiger12345
quote:
Then why are their excuses for lack of talent for CEO?
No excuses here. Facts only. Some people bitched about Miles not having true tackles and building line from inside out. Miles' record of success speaks for itself.
Apparently O is taking a different approach on building the line and depth. Some people see as an Excuse. Others see as an Explanation? You decide. Bottom line-- regardless of approach-- LSU should never lose to the likes of Troy.
I think posts constantly acknowledging any excuse (typically offered by very few) ... only serve to give some credence to the excuse. My example-- if a 3 year old tells you he could drive a car, but his license is expired-- why bother discussing his excuse like it has merit. Ignore it. It will go away. Acknowledge it and it's here to stay.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 6:06 pm to 4EverATiger12345
quote:
Last year was a wasted year in that regards. Ten Should've been minimum wins last year. We really had a shot at going 11-1 but easily 10-2
I agree, Sir, but I've for the most part put that behind me and sort of revitalized and once again filled with great hope. I will roll/ride that way until I can no longer. I will "be nice until it's time to not be nice."
This post was edited on 8/11/18 at 6:08 pm
Posted on 8/11/18 at 7:07 pm to ImayGoLesMiles
quote:
Our depth on the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball were depleted after Miles left. That's a fact. Orgeron recruited his assistant off at those positions and we now have quality depth there.
We had depth but many transferred. That wasn't on Les. CEO wasn't able to convince them to stay. That's a fact. It is yet to be seen whether he has been able to build up depth that he himself lost on the O-line.
This post was edited on 8/11/18 at 7:12 pm
Posted on 8/11/18 at 7:11 pm to beauxroux
quote:
not having true tackles
This I will agree with but I haven't seen anything from CEO yet that changes anything from the past. Traore was billed as the big get and it looks like that isn't happening. Time will tell on the others.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 7:11 pm to 4EverATiger12345
He left nooffensive or defensive linemen on the team. The offensive and defensive lines were decimated by attrition, due to lack of talent,bad behavior and quitters. Most of the linemen recruited by Les in his last 3 years were added at the end of the season after whiffing on the talent that was targered and many of them never played or stayed over 2 years.Do your home work.
This post was edited on 8/11/18 at 7:14 pm
Posted on 8/11/18 at 7:15 pm to BayouBoogie
quote:
LEs got fired for not being a Len to adapt to his surroundings. Wasn’t big on developing players or have personnel depth. He was very loyal to his starters and coaching philosophy. But the manner in which he was losing became unbearable. It’s like for 6 straight years Nick Sagan told Les that every year at the beginning of Nov. no matter the time or place I’m going to slap you in the face, and there’s nothing you’re going to do about it. It was like he got used to losing to Alabama and thought it was okay. At the end of the day Les refused to adapt. In regards to CEO, I believe he gets the big picture, the only question is can he execute his vision. And that’s TBD.
I'm not really debating why Les got fired but I'd rather discuss the topic of the OP
This post was edited on 8/11/18 at 7:24 pm
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