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1
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:34 pm to Antonio Moss
So Antonio like JJ and the rest of his fanbois you dont think that JJ had anything to do with his own horrific play?
Logically one would think that a bad OC and a bad qb would lead to bad offensive play and obviously it did.
Possibly would a competent/good qb and a poor O/C be able to put up at least a respectable offense would think they might be able to.
What if you replaced the bad O/C and bad qb with a good O/C and a competent qb????????
Maybe Crowton and JJ both not on the field is the answer to why the offense is improved!
Logically one would think that a bad OC and a bad qb would lead to bad offensive play and obviously it did.
Possibly would a competent/good qb and a poor O/C be able to put up at least a respectable offense would think they might be able to.
What if you replaced the bad O/C and bad qb with a good O/C and a competent qb????????
Maybe Crowton and JJ both not on the field is the answer to why the offense is improved!
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:35 pm to Rudy40
quote:
Maybe Crowton and JJ both not on the field is the answer to why the offense is improved!
seems to be working out just fine
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:35 pm to Rudy40
quote:
If you are happy with calling JJ's 7-14 for 46 yards and 1 INT vs Auburn playing well then go for it.
120 total yards 1 TD/1 Int
Comprised more than 50% of our total offense (not hard to considering other than Jefferson we couldn't run and neither QB could throw.)
He wasn't good, but he was the best offensive player we had that day and really the only reason we stayed in that game from an offensive stand point.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:36 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
N=1 comprises 25% of the total data.
no it doesn't.
Unless you are claiming that JJ's poor performance is SOLELY due to the OC.
quote:
You're using your statistical rules incorrectly here.
argue the law....at least you would have a chance there. quote:
It was the week after the game.
so like two weeks old...I look forward to seeing it.
quote:
Logically, it doesn't make sense to complete exclude one variable in complete favoritism of another.
yet you ignore JJ's poor play from 2010...by citing Crowten as the reason.
Take your own advice champ.
quote:
the Cotton Bowl which accounts for the QB variable,
not really.
quote:
I can make the assumption
your assumption is pretty worthless of your minimal dataset and selective exclusion.
quote:
You mean like weighing all factors
Yes, like weighing all factors...INCLUDING THAT JJ's POOR PLAY IN 2010 was likely his fault to some degree.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:37 pm to Rudy40
quote:
Maybe Crowton and JJ both not on the field is the answer to why the offense is improved!
The offense is improved because we're not putting square pegs in round holes and the playbook is probably 2 inches shorter. That does not make one QB significantly better than the other.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:37 pm to TheDoc
Lee has looked much better than the coaches led us to believe; no matter what the root cause was. Until Lee is the QB for the 3rd loss in 2011 (some say 5th due to Tn & Fla), then he is an improvement over what we had.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:40 pm to Rudy40
quote:
So Antonio like JJ and the rest of his fanbois you dont think that JJ had anything to do with his own horrific play?
I don't think he was great by any stretch. I don't think he would ever be All-SEC, but I do believe in this system he would be serviceable (much like Lee is right now.)
However, I don't think either of our QBs had been consistently put in a position to succeed between 2008-2010.
There were glimpses here and there from both a few times, but overall they were hindered by the offense they were forced to run.
quote:
Logically one would think that a bad OC and a bad qb would lead to bad offensive play and obviously it did.
However, looking at the past, this same "bad OC" had bad offenses with good QBs.
quote:
Possibly would a competent/good qb and a poor O/C be able to put up at least a respectable offense would think they might be able to.
John Beck struggled to do so.
Dennis Dixon struggled to do so.
Poor Danny O'Brien is already starting to regress.
quote:
What if you replaced the bad O/C and bad qb with a good O/C and a competent qb????????
Then offense improves.
quote:
Maybe Crowton and JJ both not on the field is the answer to why the offense is improved!
Very possible.
But like I said earlier - using all the evidence available, one could easily argue that the removal of Crowton plays a more significant role in this analysis.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:41 pm to Antonio Moss
So you are happy with a qb who wasnt good? What if there was a qb who could put up more than 120 total yards in a game?
I am confused first you said he played well the last half of the season and now you are adjusting to he wasnt good against Auburn but was the best we had. So he played not good versus Auburn, good in the 2nd half vs Bama, horrible against ULM, very good against Ole Miss, a good first half against Arky and a pretty poor second half. Good vs A&M but not great unless you call 10-19 for 158 yards a great game and if that is great what would you classify Lee's 21-27 game?
So you are happy with a qb who performs at that level 11th out of 12th in the conference and 100th out of 116??????????
I am confused first you said he played well the last half of the season and now you are adjusting to he wasnt good against Auburn but was the best we had. So he played not good versus Auburn, good in the 2nd half vs Bama, horrible against ULM, very good against Ole Miss, a good first half against Arky and a pretty poor second half. Good vs A&M but not great unless you call 10-19 for 158 yards a great game and if that is great what would you classify Lee's 21-27 game?
So you are happy with a qb who performs at that level 11th out of 12th in the conference and 100th out of 116??????????
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:41 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
and neither QB could throw
disingenuous
Lee had an injury to his throwing hand. He was 6 of 7 prior to that.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:44 pm to Antonio Moss
I would also be more than happy that Lee will not go out and put up 4 total yards in a game barring early injury and if he did I am certain he wouldnt be quoted as saying he thought his play was fine!
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:46 pm to Rudy40
quote:
I would also be more than happy that Lee will not go out and put up 4 total yards in a game barring early injury and if he did I am certain he wouldnt be quoted as saying he thought his play was fine!
Get some new material, Rudy.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:46 pm to CptBengal
quote:
no it doesn't.
Yes it does.
You are evaluating the offensive efficiency without Crowton - that's four games so far.
quote:
Unless you are claiming that JJ's poor performance is SOLELY due to the OC.
It's not about claiming. I'm trying to isolate one variable.
quote:
argue the law....at least you would have a chance there.
Please tell me you're not a statistician.
quote:
so like two weeks old...I look forward to seeing it.
quote:
It's amazing how similar the Cotton Bowl and the Oregon game were - both game where someone other than Gary Crowton called the game.
Cotton Bowl:
41 points
74 plays for 446 total yards
19 passes for 158 yards (26%)
55 rushes for 288 yards (74%)
0 Delay of game penalties
9-15 in 3rd down efficiency
1 turnover
100% RZ efficiency (3 TDs, 1FG)
37:26 Time of Possession
Oregon:
40 points
70 plays for 273 total yards
22 passes for 98 yards (31%)
48 rushes for 175 yrads (69%)
1 Delay of Game (ST)
6-15 3rd down efficiency
1 Turnover
100% RZ efficiency (4 TDs, 1 FGs)
33:04 Time of Possession
quote:
yet you ignore JJ's poor play from 2010...by citing Crowten as the reason.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm isolating Crowton's influence and measuring overall offensive efficiency.
quote:
your assumption is pretty worthless of your minimal dataset and selective exclusion.
This makes me think you aren't a statistician. People isolate variables all the time. Hell, I do it all the time with work. It isn't excluding anything.
quote:
Yes, like weighing all factors...INCLUDING THAT JJ's POOR PLAY IN 2010 was likely his fault to some degree.
Exactly. To what degree is the question.
Thanks for proving my point.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:51 pm to Rudy40
quote:
So you are happy with a qb who wasnt good? What if there was a qb who could put up more than 120 total yards in a game?
This has little to do with being happy or sad about a QB.
The offense has been bad since 2008. I'm simply arguing the reasons.
quote:
I am confused first you said he played well the last half of the season and now you are adjusting to he wasnt good against Auburn but was the best we had. So he played not good versus Auburn, good in the 2nd half vs Bama, horrible against ULM, very good against Ole Miss, a good first half against Arky and a pretty poor second half. Good vs A&M but not great unless you call 10-19 for 158 yards a great game and if that is great what would you classify Lee's 21-27 game?
He played serviceable in the back half of the season such that he wasn't a liability - Doc's words not mine.
Lee's Mississippi State game was good. I would have it behind the Ole Miss, Alabama, and A&M games of last year, but still very good.
I have no problem with Lee - never have. I've been consistently saying that problem was Crowton.
quote:
So you are happy with a qb who performs at that level 11th out of 12th in the conference and 100th out of 116??????????
Again, happiness has absolutely nothing to do with it.
The offense since 2007 was bad. What was the reason?
That's all I'm concerned with.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:54 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
You are evaluating the offensive efficiency without Crowton - that's four games so far.
only if you assume the Corwten was the sole reason for the difference in efficiency between this year and last. Such an assumption is absurd on its face.
quote:
I'm trying to isolate one variable.
is not done by ignoring another variable, because you don't like its effects in the system..sorry.
quote:
Please tell me you're not a statistician.
I am. and you are woefully wrong on several of your "points" for your analysis....but making some derogatory comment will surely help you seem correct.
quote:
I'm isolating Crowton's influence and measuring overall offensive efficiency.
cannot be done...any attempt at isolation you make excludes JJ as a potential reason for the difference. That's not isolation...it's willful ignorance.
quote:
People isolate variables all the time.
damn right we do. When we control for the variation accounted for in the other variable. You didn't do that...you just ignored it. That's just plain wrong.
quote:
This makes me think you aren't a statistician
Yep, keep making dumb arse claims about me when you're wrong. It'll make you seem more correct to the other mouth breathers.
quote:
Exactly. To what degree is the question.
Really? You just said you were isolating crowten by ignoring JJ. How can you even come close to filling in the effective contribution of both without handling both of them in a combined model.
Seriously, what you are doing is wrong. there is a way to do it...but i don't want the put the time into a multivariate model.
Suffice it to say, your analysis that doesnt consider the other contributing factor is wrong.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:57 pm to CptBengal
quote:
only if you assume the Corwten was the sole reason for the difference in efficiency between this year and last. Such an assumption is absurd on its face.
What?
The whole point of isolating his influence is to try and make a quality assumption about his overall effect
I'm just going to stop here. There is no point in continuing this.
quote:
You just said you were isolating crowten by ignoring JJ
One more thing. I never ignored Jefferson's production.
Now I'm done.
This post was edited on 9/19/11 at 1:59 pm
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:59 pm to CptBengal
So Lee moves the offense a lot better because we average 1 more yard a game? (30 less if you only count games against fbs schools)
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:59 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
The whole point of isolating his influence is to try and make a quality assumption about his overall effect
exactly, which isn't done by ignoring a variable which would have a similar effect on the metrics you are looking at. YOU ARE WRONG.
quote:
I'm just going to stop here. There is no point in continuing this.
....you don't like the answer, that doesn't mean there was no point.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:59 pm to Antonio Moss
Just popped in to see if the same JJ's haters were here.
Why Yes they are.
Why Yes they are.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 2:10 pm to BeeFense5
Well I know a noted JJ fanboi like Beefense wouldnt want to hear again JJ spouting off how well he played after producing 4 yards of total offense in a game but you would think the ones not worshipping at the JJ altar would consider it pretty seriously that the supposed leader and starting qb self evaluation after that performance was he played well!!!!!
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