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re: The Right of Secession... History forgotten...

Posted on 7/9/20 at 8:07 pm to
Posted by AU86
Member since Aug 2009
22443 posts
Posted on 7/9/20 at 8:07 pm to
quote:

James Madison and men of his generation did not believe in nullification or secession as rights



Of really!! James Madison said the following at Constitutional Convention when a proposal was made and rejected to allow the Federal Government to suppress a seceding state:

"A Union of the States containing such an ingredient seemed to provide for its own destruction. The use of force against a State, would look more like a declaration of war, than an infliction of punishment, and would probably be considered by the party attacked as a dissolution of all previous compacts by which it might be bound.”
Posted by AU86
Member since Aug 2009
22443 posts
Posted on 7/9/20 at 8:59 pm to
America was dominated by Jeffersonian Democracy from 1800 until 1860. The Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions of 1798 written by Jefferson and Madison were declarations of the principle that the federal government must not violate the rights of the states. Thomas Jefferson opposed the ratification of the U.S. Constitution and believed it was every state's right to leave the Union which it had freely joined. The reason why Jefferson's opposition to the ratification of the Constitution is relevant is because the Constitution represented a stronger Union. A strong Federal Government with rights reserved specifically for the national interests. Jefferson supported the "Articles of Confederation" which called for a less formal association between the states, with the federal government unable to act without the unanimous consensus of the states.

On secession, Jefferson opposed the decision to bring General Washington out of retirement and sending him to New England to put down Shay's rebellion. Jefferson, who was serving as America's representative in Paris at the time, thought it was reasonable, even healthy, for the citizens of New England to rebel.

In 1787, Thomas Jefferson wrote two letters, one to Madison and the other to William Smith, concerning Shay's rebellion and his disagreement with Congress's decision to bring General George Washington out of retirement and send him to New England to put down the rebellion.

Jefferson Letter to Madison Jan 30, 1787
"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical."

.

Jefferson to William Smith Nov 13, 1787
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure. "

George Washington was against a state having the right to leave the Union. Madison initially allied with Washington but later took on Jefferson's views. The founding fathers discussed the issue in detail, but they did not agree on the subject. Tberefore, it was common thought by many people up to the time of the Civil War that a state did have the right to secede. There wasn't a great cry in the North against and even some support of the South's right to secede until the firing on Fort Sumter. That galvanized most Northern opinion against the South.

BTW: Many of Washington and Jefferson's ancestors served in the Confederate Army.
Posted by Mithridates6
Member since Oct 2019
8220 posts
Posted on 7/9/20 at 9:26 pm to
quote:


Of really!! James Madison said the following at Constitutional Convention when a proposal was made and rejected to allow the Federal Government to suppress a seceding state:

Yes. He was around in 1832 when South Carolina threatened secession over nullification
quote:

Madison considered Calhoun’s views dangerous. If the states had the power to decide whether or not to abide by federal law, it would lead to clashes between state and federal officials “in executing conflicting decrees, the result of which would depend on the comparative force of the local posse.” It put “powder under the Constitution and Union, and a match in the hand of every party to blow them up at pleasure.” Secession was “the twin” of nullification, and Madison urged in 1832, “It is high time that the claim to secede at will should be put down by the public opinion.”
Posted by More&Les
Member since Nov 2012
14684 posts
Posted on 7/9/20 at 9:32 pm to
quote:


"A Union of the States containing such an ingredient seemed to provide for its own destruction. The use of force against a State, would look more like a declaration of war, than an infliction of punishment, and would probably be considered by the party attacked as a dissolution of all previous compacts by which it might be bound.”



I wonder what he would have thought if the state attacked the Union?
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