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Started By
Message
Screen, Stokely, Haynes, Hillman, Lee
Posted on 6/27/08 at 9:23 am
Posted on 6/27/08 at 9:23 am
Who was the better quarterback?
7
Posted on 6/27/08 at 9:31 am to Topcat
One name there was far worse QB than the other 4.
Nelson Stokley was unstoppable before he got injured.
Mike Hillman was the QB on a team that had only one loss, and that one loss was caused by poor coaching. LSU had a 23-12 lead against Ole Miss with Archie Manning and instead of going for the jugular, coach Mac kept putting in 2nd and 3rd string QB's in the game, and OM came back to win 26-23.
Nelson Stokley was unstoppable before he got injured.
Mike Hillman was the QB on a team that had only one loss, and that one loss was caused by poor coaching. LSU had a 23-12 lead against Ole Miss with Archie Manning and instead of going for the jugular, coach Mac kept putting in 2nd and 3rd string QB's in the game, and OM came back to win 26-23.
Posted on 6/27/08 at 9:46 am to chatuey
I remember that Nov. 1 1969 Ole Miss game well, even though I was little. If Mac had kicked a FG, we would have been 9-0-1 and played Texas in the Cotton Bowl. Like you said, had they kept Hillman in, Archie might not have gotten the ball back.
This was the week after we had beaten Auburn in Tiger Stadium 21-20 on a blocked extra point - my first game ever in DV.
This was the week after we had beaten Auburn in Tiger Stadium 21-20 on a blocked extra point - my first game ever in DV.
Posted on 6/27/08 at 10:09 am to MetryTyger
Screen and Stokely, when healthy, were as good as any qb that's ever played. The problem with both, however, was that they were beset by recurring knee injuries. Stokely was a scrambler that gave defenses fits ala Archie Manning. Screen was also mobile but was a better passer.
Freddie Haynes was only about 5'9" and was a serviceable college qb.
Mike Hillman was a lefty and could do it all. He had a great sense of when to tuck the ball and run and had a very good arm.
Buddy Lee was about 6'3", big and strong-armed, ala JaMarcus Russell. Except for Freddie Haynes, pressed into service because of injuries, any one of them were good enough to have been a full game qb. But due to the recurring injuries of Screen and Stokely, Mac instituted the 2qb system, saying that he would never be without an experienced qb.
Freddie Haynes was only about 5'9" and was a serviceable college qb.
Mike Hillman was a lefty and could do it all. He had a great sense of when to tuck the ball and run and had a very good arm.
Buddy Lee was about 6'3", big and strong-armed, ala JaMarcus Russell. Except for Freddie Haynes, pressed into service because of injuries, any one of them were good enough to have been a full game qb. But due to the recurring injuries of Screen and Stokely, Mac instituted the 2qb system, saying that he would never be without an experienced qb.
Posted on 6/27/08 at 10:50 am to Topcat
quote:Mr. Mike is a good man!
Hillman
Posted on 6/27/08 at 10:59 am to Topcat
quote:
Who was the better quarterback?
All of them had some great games, but correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Buddy Lee was the only one of that group to lead the team to an SEC championship (1970).
He was injured before the Orange Bowl, and his back-up, Bert Jones, didn't have a real good game. Believe if Buddy had played we might have beaten the 'huskers.
Posted on 6/27/08 at 12:01 pm to chatuey
quote:
one loss was caused by poor coaching. LSU had a 23-12 lead against Ole Miss with Archie Manning and instead of going for the jugular, coach Mac kept putting in 2nd and 3rd string QB's in the game, and OM came back to win 26-23.
Yea those other qbs really stunk it up on defense. I was at that game. The only other qb to play was Buddy Lee and he only played a couple of series. BTW, Archie Manning was quite simply the best college qb of all time until Vince Young. Young is just a taller slightly quicker version of Manning. Ole Miss got 2 stops to get the ball back in the 4th and Manning did the rest. He threw one pass for a 10 or 15 yd td after he scrambled something like 20 yards in the Ole Miss backfield. Next time he converted on a 4th and ran for the 2. It was probably, no, it was the worst game LSU had on defense that entire season and it was all Archie Manning. LSU still had a chance with 4th and 8 at the end of the game. Hillmans pass to the tight end was incomplete when he was hit by 3 or 4 reb defenders right when the ball got to him. Your lame attempt to blame Coach Mac is bs and juvenile, at best.
Posted on 6/27/08 at 12:04 pm to blueridgeTiger
I have always said that had Nelson Stokley not torn up both his knees and a shoulder he would have gone down as one of the greatest SEC qbs ever. Was outright fast, like a damn deer and could throw very well from the pocket or on the roll out. What a shame we never saw him healthy for a complete season.
Posted on 6/27/08 at 12:15 pm to rtgr
quote:
Ole Miss got 2 stops to get the ball back in the 4th
Who was playing QB for us when they made those stops?
quote:
Your lame attempt to blame Coach Mac is bs and juvenile, at best.
Mac was famous for his poor decisions regarding the quarterback rotation, and for his conservative style, relying on his defense to win games after he got a lead.
I wasn't at the 1969 game, but I saw many many games with Mac as our coach. That he would pull his best quarterback and put in a backup on a crucial drive when we were trying to hold the ball with a lead would be perfectly in character for him. That he would think a 23-12 lead was safe and that there was no need to score any more points would not surprise me in the least. In short, what the other poster claims is exactly what I would expect Mac to do in the circumstances described.
So, who was in the game at QB when Ole Miss made the stops to get the ball back in the 4th quarter? If it wasn't Hillman, then the other poster is dead on with his assessment.
Posted on 6/27/08 at 12:29 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
That he would pull his best quarterback and put in a backup on a crucial drive when we were trying to hold the ball with a lead would be perfectly in character for him. That he would think a 23-12 lead was safe and that there was no need to score any more points would not surprise me in the least. In short, what the other poster claims is exactly what I would expect Mac to do in the circumstances described.
I totally agree. When Mac had Emsminger and Woodley it seemed as if when one of them got the hot hand and led us to a couple of TDs, Mac would switch quarterbacks. Danged frustrating. He hated the forward pass.
I was very happy to see Mac Pack.
Posted on 6/27/08 at 12:38 pm to Nuts4LSU
Stokely...before getting hurt the three times was outstanding.
Overall Hillman counting all the years played at LSU.
Manning QB rating and stats prove he was a good qb, but not the best ever even in the SEC up until his time at Ole Miss.
A number of older Ole Miss fans think Charlie Conerly was a better overall QB.
Archie had one great year and 2 sub par years and finish with more ints than tds.
Posted on 6/27/08 at 6:38 pm to rtgr
quote:
The only other qb to play was Buddy Lee
I was not at the game, but I had a better view than you did watching it on TV.
Not only did he play the 2nd stringer like you said, but on the 4th qtr Ole Miss fumbled and LSU recovered around the OM's 20 yard line with the score 23-12. Coach Mac inserted Butch Duhe, 3rd string QB, true freshman with almost zero experience, which promptly proceeded to fumble the snap from center and OM recovered.
Butch Duhe was a great prospect, but not at that point of his career. Mac could have put the game out of reach at that point.
quote:
Your lame attempt to blame Coach Mac is bs and juvenile, at best
Actually Coach Mac was a horrendous offensive coach and made many poor decisions while he was the coach in the 60's, like his choice of qb's. He would play Billy Ezell over Pat Screen, Freddy Haynes over Mike Hillman, and Paul Lyons over Bert Jones. His choices were all poor passers, but he would stick with them because they were better at pitching out.
This post was edited on 6/27/08 at 6:46 pm
Posted on 6/27/08 at 6:46 pm to chatuey
quote:
4th qtr Ole Miss fumbled and LSU recovered around the OM's 20 yard line with the score 23-12. Coach Mac inserted Butch Duhe, 3rd string QB, true freshman with almost zero experience, which promptly proceeded to fumble the snap from center and OM recovered.
Absolutely no surprise to me at all.
Posted on 6/27/08 at 6:59 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
Mac was famous for his poor decisions regarding the quarterback rotation, and for his conservative style, relying on his defense to win games after he got a lead.
Absolutely right.
Mac learned that trait from the "Bear". The problem was that LSU didn't have the same talent that Bama had. Bear got away with it; Mac didn't.
Posted on 6/27/08 at 7:56 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
Who was playing QB for us when they made those stops?
Mike Hillman was Nuts. Sorry to rain on your parade. Lee played, I am nearly certain, at the end of the first half and in the 3rd quarter and it was for only one or two series to give Hillman a rest. Your hatred of Coach Mac and reluctance to give him any credit at all is well known Nuts. You really should give up the loud, braying criticism of him. He is dead and it only makes you look like a complete arse.
Posted on 6/27/08 at 7:58 pm to chatuey
quote:
Coach Mac inserted Butch Duhe, 3rd string QB, true freshman with almost zero experience, which promptly proceeded to fumble the snap from center and OM recovered.
First. Butch Duhe never played a down for LSU.
Second. Freshmen were not elegible to play until 1970.
Try something new.
Posted on 6/27/08 at 8:09 pm to rtgr
quote:
First. Butch Duhe never played a down for LSU.
Second. Freshmen were not elegible to play until 1970.
Try something new.
BOOM
Posted on 6/27/08 at 8:26 pm to rtgr
quote:
Your hatred of Coach Mac and reluctance to give him any credit at all is well known Nuts.
Moronic. I don't hate Coach Mac. I just don't delude myself that he was better than he was, that he was fired simply because he couldn't beat Bear Bryant, or that firing him caused the downfall of LSU football. Coach Mac was a good coach. That is fact. All that other stuff is myth.
quote:
You really should give up the loud, braying criticism of him.
The only one braying here is you. Throughout his career, Mac made horrible decisions in his choice of quarterbacks. That is a fact. Throughout his career, he was extremely conservative offensively, preferring to sit on a lead and let his defense hold it than add to it or run out the clock with the offense. That is a fact.
quote:
Lee played, I am nearly certain, at the end of the first half and in the 3rd quarter and it was for only one or two series to give Hillman a rest.
In other words, you don't know, so you are making up whatever facts fit your argument. Fine. I don't know who was in the game. I do know that if you are up 23-12 in the fourth quarter and you lose without scoring any more points, there's a strong likelihood that conservative play calling and sitting on the lead had something to do with it. I also know that Mac was absolutely famous for doing that very thing, so it would not surprise me at all if that philosophy of his played a significant role in the loss.
Posted on 6/27/08 at 9:44 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
Moronic. I don't hate Coach Mac. I just don't delude myself that he was better than he was, that he was fired simply because he couldn't beat Bear
Yes Nuts, we know. We have all heard it a thousand times or more. It's old. It was old when it was first trotted out 40 years ago. You yapping it here merely proves my point.
In other words, you don't know, so you are making up whatever facts fit your argument.
The only series I am almost certain of is the one near the end of the first half. You can try those second rate, DOJ tricks on someone who hasn't seen them a few thousand times. I DO know, Nuts that Lee only played a couple of series. Try slamming your Puerto Rican ally who came out with the ridiculous bs about Butch Duhe.
Your blaming Mac and ignoring the poor tackling by the defense and the incredible play of Manning. Suit yourself. Like I said, you only make yourself look bad.
Posted on 6/27/08 at 10:04 pm to Topcat
This post is the perfect example of why no thread should go beyond 10 posts. It turns into a bitching contest, insults and when it gets to the end, rarely resembles the original post.
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