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re: Favorite fighter (boxer or mma) of all time

Posted on 5/21/18 at 9:06 am to
Posted by MidnightVibe
Member since Feb 2015
7896 posts
Posted on 5/21/18 at 9:06 am to
The 1960s version of Cassius Clay (aka Muhammad Ali) is the the most magnificent athlete that there's ever been. It's as if he actually existed in the 2060s, but somehow got dropped by a time machine into the previous century by accident. He was just soooo much better than anybody else, or anybody who had come before him. Really, it was as if he was playing a different sport.

It was so easy for him that the guy, in his last fight before his ban took effect against Zora Folley, was was doing virtualy nothing but throwing pullback counter rights. Which, to be clear, is a borderline insulting punch to throw at another professional fighter. And yet...





As of that last fight in the 60s, you could have counted on one hand the number of direct power shots he had taken to the face over the entirety of his pro career. He literally wasn't getting hit. Not even by the likes of Sonny Liston. Go back and watch that first fight in Miami. It's a masterpiece. Clay v. Liston, Round 1

If you don't have a couple free minutes, these three seconds are representative:



It actually bugs me that the 70s version of the man is the subject of such nostalgia and fondness when the 60s version was a way WAY better boxer. As in, had he not been banned he would have likely fought Frazier in '68, or '69 at the latest. That fight would not have been competitive. Read that last sentence again. Marinate on it. Come to terms with its veracity. He would have made him look amateurish;


Honorable Mentions:
Aaron Pryor
Prime Manny Pacquiao
Ray Leonard
Posted by MidnightVibe
Member since Feb 2015
7896 posts
Posted on 5/21/18 at 4:18 pm to
quote:

He literally wasn't getting hit. Not even by the likes of Sonny Liston. Go back and watch that first fight in Miami. It's a masterpiece. Clay v. Liston, Round 1

If you don't have a couple free minutes, these three seconds are representative:



God, I love that first round. One of my favorite ever rounds in boxing. I could watch it on repeat for hours. Hell, cumulatively I already have I'm sure. Why do I love it so very very much? A few reasons:.

Clay was a 7-1 underdog, but why? Why was Liston such a huge favorite when Clay was bigger, orders of magnitude faster both with hands and feet, a more skillful boxer, and 11 years younger to boot (though Liston lied about his age, so people thought he was only 8 years younger)?

In my estimation, it's a combination of recency bias and the sometimes-misleadign power of narrative. Floyd Patterson was the existing heavyweight champion. Now we know now that Patterson wasn't really anything that special, but I suppose at the time it was probably tougher to arrive at that conclusion when he had the belt....even though he really shouldn't have passed anyone's eyeball test. But, anyway, so Liston fights Patterson for the title and knocks him out in the first round. They fight again, and he knocks him out in the first round again.

And so people see this indestructible force of nature much like they would later see with George Foreman after he did away with Frazier and Kenny Norton in pretty awesome fashion. I realize it's easy to say this in hindsight, but I'd like to think that if I had been around then I would have looked at the Clay/Liston fight more objectively and taken into consideration, how fricking good Clay was, how much bigger he was definitely than Patterson, but than Liston too. And how, athletically speaking, he was in a different astroplane than Liston, and would utilize said athleticism in the service of a style that would disrupt and frustrate Liston, rather than just focking walking straight in and getting KTFO like Patterson.

Assume for the sake of argument that I did all that, and so I see the 7-1 odds as an opportunity and toss some serious coin on Clay. If that happens, I'm watching the first round and I see the following 7 seconds of action...



-Clay lands a ja, then casually scoots back to avoid a lunging, wild right hook by Liston.
-Dances for a second on the outside
-Sticks him with another left jab to the face and then casually pulls his head back and avoids a wild lunging left hook by Liston

Ballgame, baby. Free Money.

And those would have been my thoughts regardless of whether or not I had simultaneously heard the announcer say "Liston's got a different kind of boy in there tonight than Patterson." But that did happen. And indeed hie did.
This post was edited on 5/21/18 at 4:20 pm
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