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I agree that it's interesting seeing the anti-depressant usage rate continue to rise and yet the depression rate continues to rise. Read "Anatomy of an Epidemic" by Robert Whitaker. He discusses it in detail.

It is, but the issue of school/mass shootings in the United States is highly complex, and cannot be attributed to one simple problem (gun control, mental health, armed guards in schools, lack of morality, etc.). In my opinion, all of these subjects are worth talking about, but this is a multi-faceted issue that will require a substantial amount of rational and civil conversation by all interested groups in order to make any headway towards a solution. The unfortunate reality of the situation is that rarely happens because these events are very polarizing and people are very quick to pick a side and put up defenses - firearm advocates being no different.

Unfortunately for those of us who are responsible gun owners, the most easily identifiable issue is "gun control," which is also a very emotional issue in and of itself for many people for various reasons.

I don't know that this post has any specific point other than the fact that the issue is beyond complicated. I'm really just introspectively upset that it keeps happening.

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Changing minds starts with solid factual data and building an argument from there. Those who are overly emotional shouldn't be worried about, but those on the fence need to hear good info.

Bapple, I have a very high level of respect for your firearm knowledge and I always look forward to your posts, but these situations are inherently emotional for a very large number of people...particularly those with children. That goes for people on both sides of the fence with gun control. Frankly, it's not an emotional issue for me. I just like to think I'm objective enough to understand why that's the case. That said, I don't have kids.

Nothing is positive is ever going to come from these things until people just start listening to each other without going in with some hardline belief about what is or is not the right way to fix it. I think you'll find that talking to those who are "overly emotional" about things such as this goes much more smoothly if you start by listening to what they've got to say.

This post was edited on 2/15/18 at 3:29 pm

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Posted by bbvdd

Memphis, TN

Member since Jun 2009

25670 posts

Posted on 2/15/18 at 3:38 pm to bluemoons

quote:
I think you'll find that talking to those who are "overly emotional" about things such as this goes much more smoothly if you start by listening to what they've got to say.

I agree absolutely. The only problem about this is you have so many groups on the other side such as Everytown for Gun Safety that put out blatant BS and then you have the media pick up that BS and report it as absolute fact.

ETA: Everytown put out the statistic that there have been 18 school shootings so far this year. That statistic apparently includes every shooting within a 5 min radius of any school.

When you call bullshite, more times than not the person you're debating loses their collective mind.

This post was edited on 2/15/18 at 3:47 pm

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Posted by bapple

Capital City

Member since Oct 2010

12014 posts

Posted on 2/15/18 at 3:49 pm to bluemoons

quote:
It is, but the issue of school/mass shootings in the United States is highly complex, and cannot be attributed to one simple problem

For sure. I was merely replying to his point about depression. I know it plays a part in these incidents but isn't the only reason for them.

quote:
Nothing is positive is ever going to come from these things until people just start listening to each other without going in with some hardline belief about what is or is not the right way to fix it. I think you'll find that talking to those who are "overly emotional" about things such as this goes much more smoothly if you start by listening to what they've got to say.

My apologies for not clearing up what I mean by "overly emotional."

I would define "overly emotional" as someone who cannot accept factual information when discussing gun control. I have no problem debating anyone about gun control but we have to start from a point of fact. If it gets to a person simply yelling at me because he/she/ze/they do not like what I have to say, that would be a case of someone being "overly emotional."

While it may be an emotional topic when kids are involved, facts do not care about feelings, nor are they affected by feelings. Adding emotional information to a logical topic does not affect the outcome at all.

Again, I reiterate that I am more than willing to talk to someone who is pro gun control and explain my side while also listening to their ideas. If it stays civil and we have an exchange and still disagree, so be it. Hell, I talked to a coworker recently who thought gun registration was a good idea until I gave him some counterpoints and he admitted he was wrong. But I will not discuss gun control with someone who cannot get past an emotional wall and can only lash out emotionally. Facts have to come first.

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