re: I think this will be year 3 of me posting that Payton has to go

Eh let's see how the rest of the season shakes out. If they finish 7-9 or worse then yeah it might be time to move on. Only thing is do you trust Loomis to make another competent hire? He struck gold hiring Payton in 06 and fortunately for him he hasn't had to worry about going through a coaching search for over a decade.