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Message
re: Special Counsel Mueller Impanels Washington Grand Jury in Russia Probe
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:41 pm to AUstar
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:41 pm to AUstar
quote:
Impeachment is not the same as a criminal investigation with a grand jury. Impeachment is a political process, not a legal one. The House can impeach for any reason whatsoever if they have the votes.
Right, the president can be guilty of obstruction of justice. Full stop. Though the impeachment process is political, it still assigns guilt.
As for your assertion that the president cannot be guilty of criminal obstruction of justice b/c he has the pardoning power, that too is incorrect b/c he still has to exercise the pardon power. If convicted, until he does, he is guilty. ^ And even that makes a lot of assumptions.
3
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:44 pm to WheelRoute
quote:
As for your assertion that the president cannot be guilty of criminal obstruction of justice b/c he has the pardoning power, that too is incorrect b/c he still has to exercise the pardon power. If convicted, until he does, he is guilty.
And I believe a pardon in advance of a conviction is an implicit admission of guilt.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:55 pm to WheelRoute
quote:
As for your assertion that the president cannot be guilty of criminal obstruction of justice b/c he has the pardoning power, that too is incorrect b/c he still has to exercise the pardon power. If convicted, until he does, he is guilty. ^ And even that makes a lot of assumptions.
He can issue the pardon BEFORE any conviction. This is not uncommon and has been done in the past. In other words, he can say "Michael Flynn I hereby pardon you for any crime that you may have committed during the election process" which would make Flynn immune from prosecution for those crimes. That means that Mueller would literally be wasting his time pursuing a guy that's immune from all prosecution.
So if the president has this power, how can he "obstruct justice?" Answer: he cannot. If the president can pardon, he cannot obstruct. Otherwise, you'd have to take his power of the pardon away.
When it comes to criminal law, the president (and a Governor) is a King. They are the final authority on who is and isn't guilty. If we don't like it, we can have Congress amend the constitution.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 4:17 pm to WheelRoute
quote:
impeachment
Is sort of a toothless tiger unless the senate has 2/3 that are willing to convict. You only have to look as far as William Jefferson Clinton.
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