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re: Why are theories on evolution, climate change, etc sacrosanct,

Posted on 4/1/17 at 8:57 am to
Posted by DawgsLife
Member since Jun 2013
58952 posts
Posted on 4/1/17 at 8:57 am to
quote:

There's more evidence for evolution via natural selection than there is for the fact that the sun is at the center of our solar system. If you're skeptical of evolutionary theory, then you should be highly skeptical that the Earth orbits the sun.


You see? that's my whole point. If there were solid evidence it would be a law. There is observational evidence, which is not the same thing. But 400 years ago there was observational evidence that the sun rotated around the earth....or so they thought...until it changed. 400 years from now? Who knows? EVERY scientist will tell you that science changes.

The facts of evolution come from observational evidence of current processes, from imperfections in organisms recording historical common descent, and from transitions in the fossil record. Theories of evolution provide a provisional explanation for these facts.

quote:

Evolution via natural selection makes very specific claims regarding heritability and genetic variation, and how those alterations lead to reproductive discrepancies and phenotypic variance among a population over time. Evolution doesn't attempt to explain "how everything happened".


Evolution by natural Selection is but one theory of evolution. Do you have any idea of how many theories of evolution there are?

Evolution by Natural Selection
Front-loaded Evolution
Evolutionary Developmental Biology (Evo-Devo)
Evolution by Natural Genetic Engineering
Somatic Selection
Structuralist / Platonic Evolution
Biological Self-Organization
Multilevel Evolution
Epigenetic Evolution
Evolution by Symbiogenesis
Teleological Selection

But you think Natural Selection is the correct one. That's fine. Do you know more than the scientists and scholars they say the others are correct? That's what I mean.

All are theories based upon a theory of how it all happened. Just because some professor taught you Natural Selection in school because that is what he believed does not make it rock solid fact. If, indeed, evolution is proven as fact, only one of the evolutionary theories can be correct, right? Which one is it? The one you think is correct, because...well, you think it is correct? As I said, 400 years ago they thought the sun rotated around the earth. 50 years ago they were going to wipe out disease and hunger.
Posted by CorporateTiger
Member since Aug 2014
10700 posts
Posted on 4/1/17 at 9:01 am to
I like how you toss up a bunch of unscientific "theories" as if they are credible at all.

A lot of what you posted is unscientific ID nonsense.
Posted by Joshjrn
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2008
27250 posts
Posted on 4/1/17 at 9:01 am to
quote:

You see? that's my whole point. If there were solid evidence it would be a law.


Please stop saying this, unless you are also going to argue that there isn't "solid evidence" for gravity.
Posted by Volvagia
Fort Worth
Member since Mar 2006
51932 posts
Posted on 4/1/17 at 9:26 am to
*sigh*

I hate when folks give half baked science debates. It muddles the discussion so.....

But I'll comment on this as being emphatically wrong, simply because it seems to be a core tenet of the perspective put forth by you here:


quote:

If there were solid evidence it would be a law.


The issue of a scientific law has nothing to do with the presence of solid evidence or even the amount of it. Nothing.

Something is only a law if it is 100% inviolable, and calculated with mathematical precision. In fact, if you look into it, most scientific laws are actually equations describing behavior.


quote:

Evolution by natural Selection is but one theory of evolution. Do you have any idea of how many theories of evolution there are?


You are making a straw man of the argument. Furthermore, you aren't listing "alternative theories of evolution." You are listing evolutionary forces, which aren't mutually exclusive.

Except for the intelligent design listed under another name though. I thought that one was cute.

Evolution is the change of allelic frequency in a given population under time.

That's it. And that's as undeniable as rain. No one of authority claimed all elements of the mechanisms behind it are ironclad, solidified, and beyond reproach.
Posted by Cs
Member since Aug 2008
10483 posts
Posted on 4/1/17 at 9:42 am to
quote:

You see? that's my whole point. If there were solid evidence it would be a law. There is observational evidence, which is not the same thing. But 400 years ago there was observational evidence that the sun rotated around the earth....or so they thought...until it changed. 400 years from now? Who knows? EVERY scientist will tell you that science changes.

The facts of evolution come from observational evidence of current processes, from imperfections in organisms recording historical common descent, and from transitions in the fossil record. Theories of evolution provide a provisional explanation for these facts.


There is solid evidence. There is more than solid evidence. Scientific theories aren't synonymous with the general concept of a "theory" - they're substantiated by facts, tested hypotheses, and actual laws.

Most of our current understanding of evolutionary theory comes from molecular analysis and genetics, which corroborates and indisputably validates the troves of already extant data and evidence.

quote:

Evolution by natural Selection is but one theory of evolution. Do you have any idea of how many theories of evolution there are?

Evolution by Natural Selection
Front-loaded Evolution
Evolutionary Developmental Biology (Evo-Devo)
Evolution by Natural Genetic Engineering
Somatic Selection Structuralist / Platonic Evolution
Biological Self-Organization
Multilevel Evolution
Epigenetic Evolution
Evolution by Symbiogenesis
Teleological Selection


None of those concepts have anything to do with evolution via natural selection.

Front-loaded "evolution" has nothing to do with how populations change over time. Nothing. This "theory" has theological undertones and appears to be synonymous with intelligent design. Fun fact: evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life.

Developmental biology is an incredibly important field, and a lot of the findings from this field have helped further corroborate evolutionary theory. Just look at Hox genes, for example.

NGE, again, has nothing to do with evolutionary theory. It simply refers to how alterations within a genome occur. As we've developed more advanced investigative methods, we continue to discover just how intricate some of these DNA altering methods can be. For example, just a simple methylation of a histone complex could result in differentiated genetic regulation, and therefore altered phenotypic expression.

Biological self-organization has nothing to do with evolutionary theory. Molecules react in specific ways based on chemical interactions to form everything from proteins to various cellular structures.

Multilevel evolution (group selection) is a concept that corroborates evolutionary theory. Mathematical models have been employed to evaluate the significance of individuals within a group acting altruistically, or selfishly, and how that influences the net fitness of not only the individual, but of the group. This entire model operates on the paradigm of evolutionary theory via natural selection.

Epigenetic evolution, or really...just "epigenetics" refers to how alterations are made in the differential expression of genes due to biochemical modifications made to chemical structures other than nucleotides themselves. Again, this really has nothing to do with evolution.

Symbiogenesis, like abiogenesis, has nothing to do with evolution via natural selection.

Teleological selection, like front-loaded evolution, are philosophical and theistically insidious concepts masquerading as scientific theories. Teleology makes no refutations or contradictions to the tenants of evolution via natural selection; rather, it seems to misrepresent and misunderstand why certain functions exist - for example, a mouse with a dark brown coat allows it to blend in to the foliage and soil, allowing it to evade predation from hawks. Teleology questions the "function" of the coat, rather than why the coloration of the coat is the way it is. The brown coat of the mouse doesn't serve any inherent "function" and it wasn't "guided" in any way. Rather, the genetic variance in the mouse population resulted in some mice with darker coats than the average for the population. With the hawks soaring overhead, they were able to more easily identify mice with lighter coats, thereby affording the mice with darker coats a higher fitness. Over time, the genetic variance of the mice population shifts to darker colored coats, which serve no preconceived "function", but are rather strictly a product of the stressors of the environment.

I've never heard of Platonic Evolution, so perhaps you could provide some specifics regarding this concept.


This post was edited on 4/1/17 at 9:54 am
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