Shittier than Star Wars? (I mean, they're both simple films. I don't think either is shitty. I don't see the dialogue being noticeably better in one over the other - that's why I ask).

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It was a manufactured consensus.

Perhaps. But Empire's critical acclaim isn't. It isn't manufactured. It has evolved over the passage of time. Casablanca, while acclaimed, took some time before it was considered a GOAT candidate - particularly over Citizen Kane. Folks were slow to come around to Pulp Fiction and even slower to Shawshank, just to name a couple.

Saying Empire is better is not the same as saying Star Wars is bad. It is very akin to the Godfather/Godfather II debate among fans. And just as legitimate here. Very few sequels equal or exceed a great first chapter. Aliens is close, Terminator 2 - on a good day - pulls it off (I'm very fond of the original). Godfather II is close. Empire gets there - by the slimmest of margins. And I didn't get that from the internet.

Let's get to brass tacks - the best character in Star Wars is (real) Darth Vader - by a significant margin over Han Solo in clear second place. Empire's strength is that it is - essentially, Darth Vader: The Movie. The only thing happening outside of Vader's machinations is Luke training with Yoda. Even then, Vader is able to use the force, passively, to draw Luke into his trap. The best villains make the best movies - and the films with the strongest villainous performance will almost always produced the best final product. This is why Alan Rickman and Gary Oldman were in such demand over the past 30 years, for example. This is why the first Die Hard film remains the best, or the middle Nolan Batman film is the only one seriously worth rewatching and studying.

And it is why Empire is the best Star Wars film and one of the greatest films of all time.

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It's a personal problem, but frick it. I can't live without passion.

You recall how I am treated regarding my opinion about the terrible, g-dawful, Abrams 2009 so-called "Star Trek" film, right (opinions I believe you largely share)?

So, I understand where you're coming from, in that respect. It is your somewhat flippant, dickishness that is off-putting, not your passionate opinions.

This post was edited on 4/4/16 at 4:17 pm

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Posted by blueboy

Member since Apr 2006

56507 posts

Posted on 4/4/16 at 4:37 pm to Ace Midnight

quote:
Shittier than Star Wars? (I mean, they're both simple films. I don't think either is shitty. I don't see the dialogue being noticeably better in one over the other - that's why I ask).

"A wretched hive of scum and villainy" and "I've been waiting for you, Obi Wan. We meet again at last. The circle is now complete....." is a damn sight better than "laser-brained nerf herder" and other lines I recognized were crap even at the age of ten.

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It isn't manufactured. It has evolved over the passage of time.

It's like some campaign to name it better, and you're playing into it.

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Folks were slow to come around to Pulp

No they weren't. If anything, the movie has gone down in regard since it was released.

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Very few sequels equal or exceed a great first chapter.

Blade 2 was way better than the original.

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The best villains make the best movies

Not always. They make great movies, but there are plenty of great movies that don't have iconic villains.

quote:
You recall how I am treated regarding my opinion about the terrible, g-dawful, Abrams 2009 so-called "Star Trek" film, right (opinions I believe you largely share)?

Still right there with you, brother. Preach on.

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