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re: Have you ever done Hallucinogenics? Any Experience in Psychological Treatment?

Posted on 1/18/16 at 7:11 pm to
Posted by epbart
new york city
Member since Mar 2005
2928 posts
Posted on 1/18/16 at 7:11 pm to
quote:

much of this regulation is based in emotional-irrational fears based in religion and social histories, with the remainder being committed out of political dealmaking. it's just an obscene use of personal opinions and selfish power-grabs,


Pretty much this.

Ironically, hallucinogens / entheogens were traditionally administered by the priests of many cultures (and still are, in cases like ayahuasca), but the priest class here lobbies hard against it.

Joseph Campbell, in The Power of Myth, alludes to the therapeutic value of drug use in this controlled context. Very roughly paraphrasing here, but he states that people would approach the priests with problems; the priests would administer certain drugs in the course of rituals; the recipient-- under the influence of the drug-- experienced a deconstruction of reality, which provided novel points of view regarding their issues, allowing new contexts for problem solving and resolution. This is, imo, akin to the more poetic parlance some people say when suggesting that they let the intelligence of the plant guide them, but I think Campbell's description of the process (problem/rut >>> entheogenically driven deconstruction of reality >>> novel solutions) provides a more socially palatable framework for responsible drug use.

The problems that such drugs would help tend to have strong mental & emotional components: PTSD, addictions, etc. It makes sense that the ability to shake up perceptions of reality and forge different connections might enhance the ability to break negative or inhibiting patterns. I skimmed the article you posted. The vets the author writes about fit that mold and are in line with Campbell's description. They were stuck in a rut of being unable to healthily process some awful events that impacted their mental & emotional processes... the drugs helped them process these events in a novel way... they came out feeling some measure of relief.

I think Timothy Leary and his crew had good intentions. Regrettably, their "turn on, tune in & drop out" message was kind of irresponsible, and that so many kids did was alarming. So, it's not too surprising that hallucinogens were buried to the extent they have been, and Leary & friends deserve some of the blame due to their irresponsible zeal... that, and anecdotal evidence of recreational users being stupid about doses or not having a good sitter to keep them from hurting themselves... in other words... This is why we can't have nice things!!!

Regrettably, entheogens that have potential benefits also have to overcome the stigma of other hard drugs that are more generally corrosive: coke, heroin, meth, etc. These kind of drugs tend to accelerate a feeling or sensation of awesomeness. But you never hear about a heroin or meth user coming back from the high transformed in a positive way and a new outlook (I've never heard of it, anyway.) What you do hear is that users become seduced by the power of the awesome high feeling and they just want to escape again. Ayahuasca, LSD, and others don't do that. Aside from outlier dumbasses, the worst case (again, imo) is that people have bad trips as a result that they have control issues or a deep seated trauma that wants to emerge. Ironically, these are the things such drugs have the potential to help them with. However, it's less than ideal when experienced in a social setting. But with a doctor or priest/shaman/healer type, these people could turn a bad trip into a good, cathartic experience.

Apologies for the scattered thoughts in this post. I'm running short on time, so don't have time to tie things up neatly, but in short... I'm pro-hallunicogens. Some are really strong, though, and beyond a willingness to open yourself to the experience, for therapeutic value, you really should have some sort of empathetic guide-- whether religious or secular.

Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
424225 posts
Posted on 1/18/16 at 7:18 pm to
quote:

I think Timothy Leary and his crew had good intentions. Regrettably, their "turn on, tune in & drop out" message was kind of irresponsible, and that so many kids did was alarming. So, it's not too surprising that hallucinogens were buried to the extent they have been, and Leary & friends deserve some of the blame due to their irresponsible zeal..

yeah people do always take it to 11 and then that just ruins it for everyone else
Posted by TheCurmudgeon
Not where I want to be
Member since Aug 2014
1481 posts
Posted on 1/18/16 at 7:22 pm to
All BS aside, please show me one person who achieved great things because of the use of hallucinogens. Not just "recreational" use or from time-to-time, but someone who regularly ingested hallucinogens and that use resulted in something positive being visited on the world.

The reference above to "it's not worth the risk" is dead on. yes, some hallucinogens are naturally occuring. So is the gympie-gympie tree, hemlock, and even f'ing oleander. Sure the trip might be great, however you define that, but why does that trump the risk of burdening your loved ones with having to deal with YOUR drug-induced psychosis?
Posted by Taper Fade
New Orleans
Member since Oct 2015
33 posts
Posted on 1/18/16 at 8:48 pm to
Yours was one of the best and most enlightening replies I've ever seen on this forum.

Cheers to your experience and to this post on a whole.
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