The aura around Payton and Loomis has really worn off. I defended Loomis for a long time because even though common knowledge said Saints were in "salary cap hell," he always found a way to sign free agents and stay under. Now, I'm on a completely different end of the spectrum.

Since I've had more time to look objectively at his work post-2009 it's been really shocking. The drafting is the biggest and most obvious failure and that falls on him and Payton, but outside of that he hasn't ever taken a balanced approach to free agency and extending his own players. For example, look at the biggest additions from FA class of 2012...

Curtis Lofton - 5 yrs/$27.5 mil
Ben Grubbs - 5 yrs/$36 mil
Brodrick Bunkley - 5 yrs/$25 mil
David Hawthorne - 5 yrs/$19 mil

What's amazing is these guys are taking up just about $17 million in cap space THIS YEAR. Three aren't on the team any longer and Hawthorne has only been starting because of Ellerbe's injury. It's one thing to fail in a draft class where you miss one a handful of cheap, mostly unknown players, but it's an entirely different thing to fail in a free agent class where the players are proven commodities that you're investing over $100 million in over the next five years.

Then let's look at his recent player contract extensions...

Jimmy Graham - 4 yrs/$40 mil ($20.9 mil guaranteed)
Junior Galette - 4 yrs/$41.5 mil ($23 mil guaranteed)
Zach Streif - 5 yrs/$20 mil (age 31 at signing)

Jimmy and Junior have already been discussed at length. I have nothing to add there. It's clear why they were bad deals. Strief on the other hand is a little different. He is/was (you decide) a good player, but you don't commit $20 million over five years to a guy who is already 31, especially when the next year you draft his replacement in the first round. It's almost as foolish as dumping a bunch of money into your already stable and inexpensive running back corps! Oh wait...

It's pretty clear that Benson has lost his marbles because if he knew what the hell was going on, he would have fired Mickey Loomis by now.

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Posted by GMoney2600

Baton Rouge

Member since Oct 2005

14295 posts

Posted on 10/1/15 at 9:06 pm to Zoombop

quote:
It's pretty clear that Benson has lost his marbles because if he knew what the hell was going on, he would have fired Mickey Loomis by now.

Good post Zoombop, I just didn't want to quote the whole thing.

Hopefully this is a wake up call to Loomis & CSP. Loomis needs to get the opinion of Ireland & CSP before signing any FA's. He seriously lacks in the scouting department. CSP needs to get rid of all his buddies and hire some position coaches that are actually worth a damn. We have a chance to turn it around if they stop doing the same stupid shite that got us in this mess.

This post was edited on 10/1/15 at 9:08 pm

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Posted by Doug_H

Baton Rouge, LA

Member since Sep 2013

2368 posts

Posted on 10/2/15 at 8:22 am to Zoombop

quote:
Curtis Lofton - 5 yrs/$27.5 mil

That wasn't too bad of a contract, retail price but not too overpaid. We knew what Lofton was when we got him, a pretty good run stuffer but liability in coverage and he was exactly that here too. I don't count this as a bad move for Loomis, but rather another downvote for Vitt who can never elevate his LB's play

quote:
Ben Grubbs - 5 yrs/$36 mil

I think all of us thought this was a pretty darn good move when it happend. After losing Nicks, Grubbs was by far the best FA guard and had been playing well in Baltimore and worthy of that contract. However his play went downhil when he got here and never lived up to his contract, and that's no fault of Loomis, that's coaching when you get a proven commodity that you in turn can't get production out of.

quote:
Brodrick Bunkley - 5 yrs/$25 mil

Bad move for Loomis, Bunkley was pretty average at best in Denver and didn't deserve that contract

quote:
David Hawthorne - 5 yrs/$19 mil

Bad move for Loomis, Hawthorne did not deserve that contract. What also sucked for Loomis is that Hawthorne was hurt most of the first 2 years here

quote:
Jimmy Graham - 4 yrs/$40 mil ($20.9 mil guaranteed)

Not a bad contract, I nor any of us can blame Loomis for not "seeing the future" on that we would trade Jimmy a year later, that could very well have come from Payton pulling that string

quote:
Junior Galette - 4 yrs/$41.5 mil ($23 mil guaranteed)

Bad move for Loomis, Jr had a few red flags before he got that contract

quote:
Zach Streif - 5 yrs/$20 mil (age 31 at signing)

Bad move for 5 years for Loomis, at the time I was thinking we'd give him probably a 2 year deal. Streif had been a top 3-5 RIGHT tackle for the last few years, but at 31 and being 6'7" 340lbs it was hard to imagine for myself that he would continue to be good with that big frame as he got older since speed was never on his side, add in getting a little older and slower and possibly even a little more weight and that doesn't turn good for Streif. I'm still not ready to close the book on Streif, yes he's had 2 bad games this year but 2 games doesn't negate the last 3+ years of top right tackle play, but he only gets one more game, now if against Dallas he has another bad game then it's time to turn to Peat.

People hate on Loomis for the terrible draft picks, of which we have had plenty, but I, like most people question just how much pull Loomis has in actually deciding who gets drafted. I think Payton has more say so than Loomis, though I could be very wrong.

But one thing that would help out for whomever is deciding on draft picks, would be better position coaching which is something this board has been calling for for years now.

We have not drafted and developed a good LB under Joe Vitt, and the only good DL to Bill Johnson's credit is Cam Jordan but I attribute that to Jordan's own athletic ability and drive more than anything.
-We have not had a consistent kicker under McMahan in years, and we just had our first return for a TD in FOUR years, and even then that was after a re-kick which made their coverage team a little more tired having to sprint down the field twice.
-WR's haven't been the same, partially to age but also since Curtis Johnson left to go to Tulane. Curtis Johnson was a great find by CSP, but now that he's gone it's time to find somebody else worthy. We tried Henry Ellard I think it was, which sounded good on paper but just didn't pan out, and now I'm not sure who's there.
-O-line hasn't been the same since Kromer left, though it looks to have a solid foundation now with Armstead, Unger, and hopefully Peat, but a new O-line coach should be found this offseason.

And for those that really hate Loomis, you should be happy since we hired Jeff Ireland that is ultimately taking power out of Loomis' hands as well as him having more and more responsibilities with the Pelicans. What Loomis and/or CSP should be blamed for is not going after a guard in FA or the draft, and not going after WR's like Crabtree & James Jones. It looks to me like the writing is on the wall for Loomis as GM in the sense of who gets put on the team, and more of Loomis just focusing on the money side

This post was edited on 10/2/15 at 9:42 am

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