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re: Avenger: AoU Reviews (**MAJOR SPOILERS**)
Posted on 5/4/15 at 12:49 pm to DelU249
Posted on 5/4/15 at 12:49 pm to DelU249
quote:
I know what they were shooting for, but when it is flat out stated in the dialogue, it's not really subtext.
What were they shooting for IYO?
I saw all of the parenthood/duality/evolution stuff. That was all there, very lightly, and pretty effective.
Posted on 5/4/15 at 12:53 pm to Freauxzen
Exactly what you just said, but ultron outright states it. Nothing was subtle about it (kind of the same with Prometheus)
And that's why I think it's interesting to watch ex machina so close to seeing this
Look, it's a fun movie, I just don't think it's very stimulating in that sense. I see loads of unrealized potential with ultron
And that's why I think it's interesting to watch ex machina so close to seeing this
Look, it's a fun movie, I just don't think it's very stimulating in that sense. I see loads of unrealized potential with ultron
Posted on 5/4/15 at 1:09 pm to Freauxzen
There's only a few actual plots in fiction, so that's no a real deal-breaker for me. Man v. Machine. All that changes is the details. And it's not like this movie hinges on plot.
As did I, but I was even more interested in its take on what makes a hero and the nature of sacrifice. Which leads us to one of my favorite parts of the film, the contrast between Black Widow and Hawkeye.
First, let's remember that they come from the same place to the Avengers. They were SHIELD agents who got caught up in the super hero stuff. They are ordinary people fighting alongside supermen.
For Widow, she chooses the path of sacrifice and heroism. She was essentially forced into being a spy and her back story is one of her being denied agency and the choice to be anything but a killing machine. She resents that, but right at the final battle, she pushes Banner into a hole to turn him into the Hulk. She chooses to deny herself the "normal" life that was being offered to her (and thought she had already been denied). Of course, there's the matter that her choice denies Banner of his, but that's a later issue. To be a hero, Natasha denies herself the trappings of an ordinary life. And at the end of the film, she's one of the few to stick with Cap as an Avenger.
OTOH, Hawkeye has a secret family. He's made choices to be a hero, but has also gone to extreme lengths to have a "normal" life, one that he is always working on (hence all of his home improvement projects). After he carries himself to the evacuation car, he collapses. He's done, physically and emotionally (also, let's point out that every cue in the film was he was the one to die -- right down to it seeming like One Last Job). Anyway, he sees the kid in peril, and he makes himself get up and go rescue him, at the cost of Quicksilver's life (plot twist!).
His reaction is that this cost is not worth it. He goes home to be with his wife and family because those are the things that matter to him. What worth is saving the world if it costs your kids their father? The cost of heroism becomes to high, and he cashes out.
ETA: Now, Black widow will continue with the Avengers. She will be, by definition, a Hero. However, if you asked the characters, they would say that Clint is the better Person. Natasha self-conceptualizes as a monster, and Clint as a regular dude. But he's the only one with the courage to do what has to be done, and then walk away.
quote:
I saw all of the parenthood/duality/evolution stuff.
As did I, but I was even more interested in its take on what makes a hero and the nature of sacrifice. Which leads us to one of my favorite parts of the film, the contrast between Black Widow and Hawkeye.
First, let's remember that they come from the same place to the Avengers. They were SHIELD agents who got caught up in the super hero stuff. They are ordinary people fighting alongside supermen.
For Widow, she chooses the path of sacrifice and heroism. She was essentially forced into being a spy and her back story is one of her being denied agency and the choice to be anything but a killing machine. She resents that, but right at the final battle, she pushes Banner into a hole to turn him into the Hulk. She chooses to deny herself the "normal" life that was being offered to her (and thought she had already been denied). Of course, there's the matter that her choice denies Banner of his, but that's a later issue. To be a hero, Natasha denies herself the trappings of an ordinary life. And at the end of the film, she's one of the few to stick with Cap as an Avenger.
OTOH, Hawkeye has a secret family. He's made choices to be a hero, but has also gone to extreme lengths to have a "normal" life, one that he is always working on (hence all of his home improvement projects). After he carries himself to the evacuation car, he collapses. He's done, physically and emotionally (also, let's point out that every cue in the film was he was the one to die -- right down to it seeming like One Last Job). Anyway, he sees the kid in peril, and he makes himself get up and go rescue him, at the cost of Quicksilver's life (plot twist!).
His reaction is that this cost is not worth it. He goes home to be with his wife and family because those are the things that matter to him. What worth is saving the world if it costs your kids their father? The cost of heroism becomes to high, and he cashes out.
ETA: Now, Black widow will continue with the Avengers. She will be, by definition, a Hero. However, if you asked the characters, they would say that Clint is the better Person. Natasha self-conceptualizes as a monster, and Clint as a regular dude. But he's the only one with the courage to do what has to be done, and then walk away.
This post was edited on 5/4/15 at 1:13 pm
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