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Message
re: Kevin Love is a terrible defender (even worse than I thought)
Posted on 1/10/15 at 12:46 pm to Goldrush25
Posted on 1/10/15 at 12:46 pm to Goldrush25
As a Wolves fan, I feel it necessary to comment on a number of things in this thread.
Yes, Love has limits as an on ball defender that are obvious; he does take off plays, off the ball as well, which doesn't even let him realize his maximum potential as a limited defender.
That said, something important was mentioned:
That isn't inflation. A possession doesn't end, until your team secures possession of the basketball, and defensive rebounding is a vital part of it; essentially, he is the guy that closes out plays, rather than initiating game changing or disrupting defense. That does have significant value. You can play rugged defense for the duration of the shot clock, only give up bad looks, but if you give up offensive rebounds, all that effort and efficiency is squandered.
It is too early to say. If the Cavaliers get a title out of the exchange, and the Timberwolves get a Hall-of-Fame-but-never-contender career out of Wiggins, for example, it would remain a very subjective evaluation as to who came out ahead, depending on what one values more. I'm not saying the Cavs will win the title, or that Wiggins is a Hall-of-Famer. I'm just saying there are a lot of variables that are still in play, and perhaps maybe more than 35-40 NBA games after a major trade is a somewhat small sample size to make the call on the trade already.
I love Wiggins' game. He is not, however, a better fit for the Cavs today, than Love. With LeBron Lite, and an injured Varejao, the Cavaliers need rugged rebounding, and while Wiggins is shooting well early, he's not a defense bending presence yet.
One of Love's underrated merits, is in his ability to get his offensive numbers in the context of the offense, without being ball-dominant. As much as I love AW, he's getting a ton of his offense for Minnesota on designed spot ups and intentional weak side isolations, usually in the 3rd quarter of games where Flip Saunders intentionally tries to run things through Wiggins, so he can develop as an offensive player. I'm a big critic of Flip, but this has been the smartest decision that he's ever made while affiliated with the Timberwolves, and you can already see some of the benefits of it, in Wiggins' play.
Yes. He's not a perfect player by any means, but he gives you things other guys in the league simply can't-- you take the issues on defense, as part of it, but he's still one of the top couple of PFs in the game.
People who pooh-pooh Love now, are the same people who derided the contributions of Chris Bosh in Miami, because his stat line in Miami was diffent than it was in Toronto. It doesn't make either of them lesser players, as they adapt their respective games to play with LeBron and Kyrie Irving/D-Wade. It also takes time to get unfamiliar talent to play together, and Love's game has picked up a fair bit, statistically, as things in Cleveland sort themselves out.
Two to three years from now, I'd rather have Wiggins-- but that is as much a function of Love being a 30 year old guy with limited athleticism, and Wiggins being a 22 year old still growing into his game, at that point, as anything else.
Yes, Love has limits as an on ball defender that are obvious; he does take off plays, off the ball as well, which doesn't even let him realize his maximum potential as a limited defender.
That said, something important was mentioned:
quote:
His defensive rating is inflated because of his rebounding numbers
That isn't inflation. A possession doesn't end, until your team secures possession of the basketball, and defensive rebounding is a vital part of it; essentially, he is the guy that closes out plays, rather than initiating game changing or disrupting defense. That does have significant value. You can play rugged defense for the duration of the shot clock, only give up bad looks, but if you give up offensive rebounds, all that effort and efficiency is squandered.
quote:
Trading Wiggins for Love will go down as one of the worst decisions, in hindsight, in history
It is too early to say. If the Cavaliers get a title out of the exchange, and the Timberwolves get a Hall-of-Fame-but-never-contender career out of Wiggins, for example, it would remain a very subjective evaluation as to who came out ahead, depending on what one values more. I'm not saying the Cavs will win the title, or that Wiggins is a Hall-of-Famer. I'm just saying there are a lot of variables that are still in play, and perhaps maybe more than 35-40 NBA games after a major trade is a somewhat small sample size to make the call on the trade already.
quote:
Wiggins today is a better fit than Love today
I love Wiggins' game. He is not, however, a better fit for the Cavs today, than Love. With LeBron Lite, and an injured Varejao, the Cavaliers need rugged rebounding, and while Wiggins is shooting well early, he's not a defense bending presence yet.
One of Love's underrated merits, is in his ability to get his offensive numbers in the context of the offense, without being ball-dominant. As much as I love AW, he's getting a ton of his offense for Minnesota on designed spot ups and intentional weak side isolations, usually in the 3rd quarter of games where Flip Saunders intentionally tries to run things through Wiggins, so he can develop as an offensive player. I'm a big critic of Flip, but this has been the smartest decision that he's ever made while affiliated with the Timberwolves, and you can already see some of the benefits of it, in Wiggins' play.
quote:
Love is a top 15 player in the NBA
Yes. He's not a perfect player by any means, but he gives you things other guys in the league simply can't-- you take the issues on defense, as part of it, but he's still one of the top couple of PFs in the game.
People who pooh-pooh Love now, are the same people who derided the contributions of Chris Bosh in Miami, because his stat line in Miami was diffent than it was in Toronto. It doesn't make either of them lesser players, as they adapt their respective games to play with LeBron and Kyrie Irving/D-Wade. It also takes time to get unfamiliar talent to play together, and Love's game has picked up a fair bit, statistically, as things in Cleveland sort themselves out.
Two to three years from now, I'd rather have Wiggins-- but that is as much a function of Love being a 30 year old guy with limited athleticism, and Wiggins being a 22 year old still growing into his game, at that point, as anything else.
This post was edited on 1/10/15 at 12:48 pm
3
Posted on 1/10/15 at 2:17 pm to BoardReader
solid post.
Posted on 1/10/15 at 2:27 pm to BoardReader
Great post.
Posted on 1/10/15 at 2:30 pm to BoardReader
quote:
Yes. He's not a perfect player by any means, but he gives you things other guys in the league simply can't-- you take the issues on defense, as part of it, but he's still one of the top couple of PFs in the game.
I disagree that he is a Top 15 player. I would rather have a great defensive player who scores on putbacks and dunks than Love. I like Ibaka more than Love. I know many disagree with that though.
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