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re: Do you believe that the United States was founded as a Christian Nation?
Posted on 9/17/14 at 1:27 pm to Green Chili Tiger
Posted on 9/17/14 at 1:27 pm to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
So you don't either?
What do you or any of the other atheists in here think you will gain by trying to revise history? It is what it is? Why does it offend y'all so that America's roots are steeped in religion?
Posted on 9/17/14 at 1:42 pm to Revelator
quote:
What do you or any of the other atheists in here think you will gain by trying to revise history? It is what it is?
So......still no answer to my question?
Posted on 9/17/14 at 1:58 pm to Green Chili Tiger
And for the atheists that have to lean on the argument that the Founding Father's were all Diest to explain away their many reference to God, this is already covered in the bible.
As Romans explains, because of creation and the evidence of God's handwork in it, everyone is without excuse if they fail to believe despite this revelation.
Deism
belief in the existence of a God on the evidence of reason and nature only, with rejection of supernatural revelation.
Roman's 1:20
For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.
As Romans explains, because of creation and the evidence of God's handwork in it, everyone is without excuse if they fail to believe despite this revelation.
Deism
belief in the existence of a God on the evidence of reason and nature only, with rejection of supernatural revelation.
Roman's 1:20
For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 2:01 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:That doesn't sound evolutionarily advantageous. At all. Can you explain that? Why are we here?
I've come to grips with the reality that life may very well ultimately be meaningless and the conscious awareness of our plight is just an accident of evolution.
quote:Probably, but quite irrelevant to the meaning of our lives when you consider the timeline.
One day billions of years from now the Earth will be swallowed by an expanding Sun and not one single thing we ever enjoyed, fought for or argued about will matter.
quote:What else could there possibly be? Even if God directly spoke from the heavens, we would only know our subjective perception and worth of it.
I mean, is there any objective reason to believe that there is anything to life apart from the worth we subjectively derive from it? I certainly haven't come across it yet if so.
quote:We are different in other ways. In fact, dolphins and dogs may also have self-awareness. It is not our only unique trait, and it may not even be unique. Humans can improve their conditions at exponentially faster rates than any organism. Humans can speak. Humans can think critically. There's no reason to think these are results of self-awareness. They are independent mechanisms, largely unexplained.
We assume that animals live and die everyday largely without lasting significance, why should we be any different just because we are aware of our existence?
And, to the further point, human consciousness is totally unexplained. We don't know the mechanism the manipulate thought, memory, love. At best, we know certain mechanisms associated with it. Science is a human invention, it has not been with us most of our history. I would argue the same is true for logic, and not just in the Athenian tradition. And by simple observance, humans are innately illogical and unscientific creatures. Look at how people act. If you're honest with yourself, look at how you act. Why would you apply our synthetic inventions to solve our natural meaning? You're using the wrong tool. It's a question of why, not how.
There's also a question of the order of the universe. And this question only grows larger as we delve further in physical problems, into particle physics and string theory. Why does the universe maintain order? Why does gravity NEVER fail, black holes don't randomly pop out, everything everywhere perpetually abides by the rules.
Just some things to think about from an "agnostic"
Posted on 9/17/14 at 2:01 pm to Revelator
quote:
And for the atheists that have to lean on the argument that the Founding Father's were all Diest to explain away their many reference to God, this is already covered in the bible.
What do the Ten Commandments have to do with our laws?
Posted on 9/17/14 at 2:03 pm to Green Chili Tiger
quote:You could easily say they laid a base historical tradition for our modern western law. There is a sculpture of Hammurabi in Congress, for example.
I truly don't get this at all. What do the Ten Commandments have to do with our laws?
Posted on 9/17/14 at 2:16 pm to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
What do the Ten Commandments have to do with our laws?
You keep bringing this up to subvert the issue of the thread, which is," do you believe that the United States was founded as a Christian nation. I've listed numerous examples of why it is and you have debunked none of them.
I never said that the ten commandments were the sole basis of our law, but a contributing element. This is evident by the depiction of Moses holding the Ten Commandments in his hand on the Supreme Court building and it's display in numerous courtrooms throughout the country in its history. Whether you believe the Ten Commandments was used as a basis for our laws or not is irrelevant to whether our founders believed it was. To them, it obviously was, which is at the heart of the thread.
On top of that, the things I listed earlier;
( American Universities founded to educate preachers, bible primer used in elementary schools to teach students to read, the deceleration of independence's references to the Creator, the many references to God in the writings of the founders, the many mentions of God in documents like the Mayflower Compact, etc....)
and many more are proofs that America indeed was founded on Christian principles.
Now since I answered your question why don't you address the thread instead of trying to hijack it?
This post was edited on 9/17/14 at 2:18 pm
Posted on 9/17/14 at 2:26 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
One day billions of years from now the Earth will be swallowed by an expanding Sun and not one single thing we ever enjoyed, fought for or argued about will matter.
Sounds familiar;
2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 3:46 pm to arcalades
quote:
The vast majority of founding founders were deists, especially Paine.
Not even close to being true
People need to realize there were more founders than just those who appear on currency
A vast majority were Christians, Reverends, etc. and only a handful were deists.
Do your research
Posted on 9/17/14 at 3:58 pm to goldennugget
quote:
Not even close to being true People need to realize there were more founders than just those who appear on currency A vast majority were Christians, Reverends, etc. and only a handful were deists. Do your research
This is the rubber stamped atheists copout answer, because short of rewriting all recorded American history ( which they are doing) the influence of God on our founding is too hard to explain away.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 4:00 pm to Revelator
No one has really explained to me what being "founded as a Christian Nation" means and why that is in any way relevant.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 4:04 pm to Fun Bunch
It's pretty open to interpretation.
The relevance is based on history revisionists and those on the other side.
The relevance is based on history revisionists and those on the other side.
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