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re: How long before the SEC forces people to take down their Confederate Flags

Posted on 9/16/14 at 8:48 am to
Posted by CSATiger
The Battlefield
Member since Aug 2010
6377 posts
Posted on 9/16/14 at 8:48 am to
quote:

As a result, the battle flag became a symbol of racism to most in this country.


This is a myth pushed by the media. In 2011 the Pew Research Group conducted a poll for Princeton U. Only about 1/3 of Americans viewed the flag negatively. The rest where either positive or neutral.
Posted by CSATiger
The Battlefield
Member since Aug 2010
6377 posts
Posted on 9/16/14 at 8:59 am to
quote:

I can understand being proud to be a Southerner for reasons totally unrelated to racism, but people who fly the Confederate flag in 2014 are not doing it for that reason.


This is based on what? I believe the opposite is true. Most people who fly it in 2014 do for Heritage, or think its cool looking, or want the be a "rebel" or a statement against the current state of govt etc. I doubt very few say, I hate black people so I am going to fly a Confederate Flag.
Posted by GeauxTigerTM
Member since Sep 2006
30596 posts
Posted on 9/16/14 at 8:59 am to
quote:


This is a myth pushed by the media. In 2011 the Pew Research Group conducted a poll for Princeton U. Only about 1/3 of Americans viewed the flag negatively. The rest where either positive or neutral.




That's not exactly a glowing endorsement...
Posted by GetCocky11
Calgary, AB
Member since Oct 2012
52128 posts
Posted on 9/16/14 at 9:03 am to
quote:

This is a myth pushed by the media. In 2011 the Pew Research Group conducted a poll for Princeton U. Only about 1/3 of Americans viewed the flag negatively. The rest where either positive or neutral.


Well, most were neutral; about 9% I think were positive.

It is still a tainted symbol.
Posted by GeauxTigerTM
Member since Sep 2006
30596 posts
Posted on 9/16/14 at 9:03 am to
quote:

Most people who fly it in 2014 do for Heritage, or think its cool looking, or want the be a "rebel" or a statement against the current state of govt etc. I doubt very few say, I hate black people so I am going to fly a Confederate Flag.


That may be...but I'd bet my left nut that a venn diagram of these two examples would look pretty much like a regular circle.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
91238 posts
Posted on 9/16/14 at 9:07 am to
The Battle Flag has never been an overt sign of racism or treason - although it has been used as such by the Klan, other white supremacists and neo-Nazi groups.

There should be no heartburn with a private citizen flying such a flag, either in the traditional colors, purple and gold, etc., without additional indication that it demonstrates a racist or white supremacist intent.

After all, our ancestors bled under that banner and there is something to be said about pride.

This is yet another example of PC police gone awry.

Like the nonsense of attacking Ole Miss' symbol, Colonel Reb. Minnesota fans aren't regarded as "pro Viking", are they? I mean, the raping, pillaging and plundering the Vikings did would make a pirate blush.

Likewise for the Buccaneers. The whole point of a mascot is to be a symbol of a fierce competitor - that's all - not an endorsement of their lifestyle or criminal activity.

That's all the "Rebel" mascot is to me. That's all it should be. Ditto for "Redskins".


This post was edited on 9/16/14 at 9:08 am
Posted by LSUBoo
Knoxville, TN
Member since Mar 2006
102196 posts
Posted on 9/16/14 at 9:10 am to
quote:

although it has been used as such by the Klan, other white supremacists and neo-Nazi groups.


And therein lies the problem.

The swastika used to be considered a good luck symbol, then the Nazis came along and ruined that vibe.
Posted by Rickety Cricket
Premium Member
Member since Aug 2007
46883 posts
Posted on 9/16/14 at 9:11 am to
quote:

That may be...but I'd bet my left nut that a venn diagram of these two examples would look pretty much like a regular circle.

Well I'd bet my left nut that most people who support the confederate flag don't know what a Venn diagram is.
Posted by CSATiger
The Battlefield
Member since Aug 2010
6377 posts
Posted on 9/16/14 at 9:11 am to
quote:

Well, most were neutral; about 9% I think were positive.

It is still a tainted symbol.



But it is not to MOST as you stated. You might get that many negatives to the US flag these days
Posted by GetCocky11
Calgary, AB
Member since Oct 2012
52128 posts
Posted on 9/16/14 at 9:11 am to
quote:

although it has been used as such by the Klan, other white supremacists and neo-Nazi groups.


And this is why it is a controversial symbol today.

ETA: I'm probably coming off as very anti-flag, which isn't the case at all.
This post was edited on 9/16/14 at 9:12 am
Posted by GeauxTigerTM
Member since Sep 2006
30596 posts
Posted on 9/16/14 at 9:12 am to
quote:

Well I'd bet my left nut that most people who support the confederate flag don't know what a Venn diagram is.


Posted by CSATiger
The Battlefield
Member since Aug 2010
6377 posts
Posted on 9/16/14 at 9:13 am to
quote:

That's not exactly a glowing endorsement..
.

nor is it a overwhelming damnation
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
91238 posts
Posted on 9/16/14 at 9:15 am to
quote:

And this is why it is a controversial symbol today.


I'm not denying that. But those aren't the reasons being purported - they always go back to the Confederacy and slavery as the reasoning - NOT that the symbol has been co-opted.

So, why can't we play the same card the Muslims play? "The flag has been hijacked. We don't endorse the flag as a symbol of racism and white supremacy." Why doesn't that work?
Posted by Tchefuncte Tiger
Bat'n Rudge
Member since Oct 2004
58959 posts
Posted on 9/16/14 at 9:16 am to
quote:

The Bonnie Blue is flown all over St. Francisville, if that's what you mean. That's true heritage right there.


That's technically not the "Bonnie Blue" flag, but rather the flag of the West Florida Republic, of which St. Francisville was the capital. The legislature incorrectly renamed the flag in 2006, and it's required by law to be flown over certain governmental buildings in the Florida Parishes.

The Bonnie Blue flag did not come into existence until 1861.

LINK
This post was edited on 9/16/14 at 9:25 am
Posted by CSATiger
The Battlefield
Member since Aug 2010
6377 posts
Posted on 9/16/14 at 9:17 am to
quote:

Well I'd bet my left nut that most people who support the confederate flag don't know what a Venn diagram is.


I'll agree to that, because most people of any belief probably don't know what it is.
Posted by BIGDAB
Go for the Jugular
Member since Jun 2011
7468 posts
Posted on 9/16/14 at 9:30 am to
quote:

The Battle Flag has never been an overt sign of racism or treason


That flag represented the idea of racial superiority from the beginning.

That flag is the result of a group of states fighting to secede from the union in order to continue prosper under the institution of slavery.


Your ancestors bled under that flag, because they fell victim to propaganda by the powerful elite who did not want to see a profitable way of life end. The vast majority of enlisted southern soldiers were poor and did not own slaves. They were fear mongered into supporting a slavery, because of a fear of free black men and women being equal to them.


The following quote is from John Townsend, cotton plantation owner.


quote:

“It will be to the non-slaveholder, equally with the largest slaveholder, the obliteration of caste and the deprivation of important privileges,” he cautioned. “The color of the white man is now, in the South, a title of nobility in his relations as to the negro,” he reminded his readers. “In the Southern slaveholding States, where menial and degrading offices are turned over to be per formed exclusively by the Negro slave, the status and color of the black race becomes the badge of inferiority, and the poorest non-slaveholder may rejoice with the richest of his brethren of the white race, in the distinction of his color. He may be poor, it is true; but there is no point upon which he is so justly proud and sensitive as his privilege of caste; and there is nothing which he would resent with more fierce indignation than the attempt of the Abolitionist to emancipate the slaves and elevate the Negroes to an equality with himself and his family.”
This post was edited on 9/16/14 at 9:33 am
Posted by ChallboiMatt
Geechee land
Member since Jul 2013
570 posts
Posted on 9/16/14 at 9:37 am to


I still love seeing this flag flying on houses in Charleston. THE OG South Carolina Secession flag.
This post was edited on 9/16/14 at 9:43 am
Posted by Hater Bait
Tuscaloosa & Gulf Shores
Member since Nov 2012
2975 posts
Posted on 9/16/14 at 9:42 am to
quote:

That may be...but I'd bet my left nut that a venn diagram of these two examples would look pretty much like a regular circle.


Is this an educated way to voice your opinion that every person that owns a Confederate flag is a racist redneck?

I think any school that uses a rebel mascot is
weak as water if they don't fly a Confederate flag and play Dixie.

It's 2014. Not 1864 or 1964. I've lived in the south my entire life and never seen a Klavern nor met a klansman. I've met dumbass idiots that claim "KKK" but they've never done shite except use the N word in private...For me, It's just a way to say "Hey, Yankee, I'm from the south. Deal with it.



Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
91238 posts
Posted on 9/16/14 at 9:55 am to
quote:

That flag represented the idea of racial superiority from the beginning.


The Stars and Bars I can agree, to a certain degree. I still take issue with the CSA solely existing (and fighting) to preserve slavery - more like "extend" or "soft landing" - as most knew slavery could not persist indefinitely.

But, the battle flag is different.

quote:

Your ancestors bled under that flag, because they fell victim to propaganda by the powerful elite who did not want to see a profitable way of life end.


Certainly valid from a certain perspective.

quote:

The vast majority of enlisted southern soldiers were poor and did not own slaves.


Also true. In fact, they had more in common with slaves than they did white northerners, certainly. Our greatest national tragedy is that we did not accept some modest "soft landing" emancipation, whereby the government offered some compensation, and freed slaves worked for a time, with ever increasing protections and emancipation over a decade or so - certainly would have been better than what happened. The resentment following Reconstruction, and residual discrimination persisted, legally, for the better part of 8 decades, and we still face after images of it today.

quote:

The following quote is from John Townsend, cotton plantation owner.


He did not speak for all southerners. If he speaks for all southerners, then Virginians like Robert E. Lee and Thomas Jefferson speak for all of them by describing slavery as a moral depravity - and Lee thought it was worse for whites than blacks (of course, he was only acquianted with slavery, the institution, in the gentrified, Virginia tradition - he had no idea of the horrors on cotton plantations in Louisiana, Mississippi or Alabama).

In any event, we are getting fairly far afield. The symbol itself should not be oppressive to blacks - per se - after all, blacks served in that army.

One of the ultimate ironies of race relations (painted increasingly as solely white, southern oppression of blacks) - was the 50th reunion of the Battle of Gettysburg - in 1913. Because hotels were segregated (in Pennsylvania - you know, one of the yankee "liberator" states?) in the area, there was no provision made for housing the black veterans of the ANV. There had been provision made for the white yanks, black yanks and rebels. The white veterans of the ANV pooled their money to pay for (legally required to be) separate accomodations of their black veterans attending the reunion.

This post was edited on 9/16/14 at 9:56 am
Posted by BIGDAB
Go for the Jugular
Member since Jun 2011
7468 posts
Posted on 9/16/14 at 9:58 am to
quote:

after all, blacks served in that army.


Even then they weren't treated fairly and few if any saw any combat. They were slaves in uniforms, they weren't even allowed to carry firearms, (probably a smart thing)


This post was edited on 9/16/14 at 10:17 am
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