quote:
SFP, You obviously do not understand what I mean when I say objective moral values. Without God you can only at best have a subjective and relative to you set of moral values. This is demonstrated by the fact that different cultures over time have had different set of values. Nazi's and cannibals for example did not think what they were doing was wrong.

The question then becomes how can you determine that anything (such as rape or murder) is objectively wrong? As in wrong regardless of your value set. The answer is God can be the only source of an objective moral value set. By no means is this a Christian view point. The overwhelming majority of atheists believe the same thing. In fact I think Sam Harris may be the only atheist Im aware of that's believes you can have objective moral values aside from God, but in this he is in the minority. Almost all prominent atheists hold that morals are subjective and relative to your culture

You obviously do not understand what SFP was saying.

Religion arose from a set of moral values, not the other way around.

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Posted by amsterdam

In His Word

Member since Jul 2008

1033 posts

Posted on 7/31/14 at 11:03 am to Korkstand

quote:
You obviously do not understand what SFP was saying.

Religion arose from a set of moral values, not the other way around.

Whether or not we disagree with the origin of moral values, it is irrelevant to the question.

The question is if objective moral values can exist without God. The answer is that it cannot. Further this is a view point almost universally agreed upon by both theists and atheists. There really is no argument. So when SFP asserts that I am wrong in this most basic assertion it is either because he misunderstood what I was saying or he is so blindly ignorant of the argument that it would be best for him to withhold comment altogether.

Which brings us back to the point of this thread. I had said that Christians follow Gods word and will always stand up against gay marriage. This is because we believe God is the only source of objective right and wrong and he has deemed gay marriage as wrong and sinful.

However, if you do not believe in God, you are free to develop your own set of moral values. You may think it is perfectly fine to support gay marriage and killing unborn children (not a cheap shot - this is unfortunately acceptable practice in the US). Everyone, without God, can determine what is right and wrong for their own belief system. In this particular case the Godless believe gay marriage to be ok.

Consider that if a new country sprung up and decided over time it was prudent for the success of the country to kill all first born children, they would have a relative right to do so. Now you may say that is an atrocity beyond comprehension and I think you would be correct in saying that. But on what grounds could you say it? Without objective moral values in place, what is deemed right is in the eye of the beholder.

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