quote:
b. in the 90s the good ol' gov'ment decided in the name of conservation (or is it just anti-capitalism? anti-cattle? anti-non-green farming?) or whatever to start jacking up fees on the land these ranchers had used for a century.

So the price was fixed for almost 100 years? Sounds like they were getting a deal for 90 years to me.

quote:
-- pause --

FYI THIS LAND IS THOUSANDS OF SQUARE MILES OF NOTHING THAT THE GOVERNMENT CANT POSSIBLY POLICE BUT THAT NEVER STOPPED BUREAUCRATS FROM LOOKING FOR NEW WAYS TO ELIMINATE INDUSTRIES THEY DON'T LIKE

-- play --

It is still land they own, so it's theirs to do as they see fit.

quote:
c. so yes lnchbox, you are correct. the government is well within their rights to withdraw their markers and frick over the cattle ranchers.

How is it fricking a guy by not letting him use something that he isn't paying for and doesn't own?

quote:
d. every other rancher (100s of them) have closed up shop due to ever increasing fees..essentially driven out of business

Businesses close all the time. shite happens.

quote:
e. bundy is the lone standout. he decided to ignore the ever escalating and economically unsustainable EXTORTATION/FEES/INNOCENT GRAZING COSTS the government was charging and let his cattle wander around the desert like he's done forver.

You say ignore, I say he broke the law. Why should I side with him?

quote:
f. cue the BLM (under orders from a left-leaning administrator) to drive the last cattle farmer off the land so now it can be "cordoned off" and sit useless...BUT NOW ITS PROTECTED FROM THE OH-SO-VICIOUS TRAMPLING OF BILLIONS OF TURTLES BY STAMPEDING COWS!!!

It's their land, and he is not paying the fees. Why should I care?

quote:
***g. oh but then a little known fact emerged that Harry Reid's scumbag son is actually selling land to the chinese in a political game to build solar farms. turns out they need an EQUAL amount of land to be under 'conservation' to offset this. that land intersects with bundy's easement.

So all this anger is really about the Chinese using some land instead of some rancher that decided to break the law for the last 20 years. nice emotional argument you have here.

quote:
make sense?

It in fact makes me question even more anyone supporting him. Your only argument is that you don't like that the land is going to be used by the Chinese. I'd love to just stop paying the fed gov as well, but I live in the real world.

quote:
now his land isn't directly in the path of the solar farm, but it is the other side of the see-saw.

Are you saying he owns all of the land that the BLM is clearing? That doesn't seem to be the facts from what I've read.

quote:
is it any wonder the anger that's been boiling over is from the 100 other former ranchers/neighbors who capitulated?

What makes them so special that they should be insulated from paying fees make a living off public land?

quote:
now you see why more than just bundy's cowboys showed up to face off against the BLM

I don't actually.

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Posted by CAD703X

Liberty Island

Member since Jul 2008

81147 posts

Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:34 am to LNCHBOX

Since clearly no one is reading it, let me pull out the key statements in the OFFICIAL BLM COMPLAINT AGAINST CLIVE BUNDY

quote:
Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cows

I don't think I need to comment on that.

Who are the ones doing the complaining?

quote:
Within the last month, letters requesting action have also been recieved from several individuals, Friends of Nevada Wilderness, Friends of Gold Butte and Friends of Joshua Tree Forest.

Friends of Nevada Wilderness MISSION

quote:
We rely on wilderness for healthy air and clean water, and yet lands with wilderness character face new threats every day. Our members are not only the eyes, ears, and helping hands in wilderness, but the voices of these incredible areas as well, speaking up to ensure deserving areas are protected for future generations. Friends of Nevada Wilderness works closely with our partners in land management agencies, volunteers out on the ground, elected officials, and many other stakeholders to identify lands with wilderness characteristics and then speak up for them in one united voice to provide the highest level of protection possible. We are proud to be a bi-partisan organization.

"EYES AND EARS FOR THE BLM"

Friends of Gold Butte MISSION

Achieve the permanent protection of the biological, geological and cultural resources through education, community outreach and advocacy.

quote:
Goals

Achieve NCA designation and assist with the development of the management plan.
Develop and implement service projects to prevent resource damage through collaboration with governing agencies.
Develop and implement a public education program through outings, and presentations.
Accrue public support and endorsement from community organizations and political leaders.

Friends of Joshua Tree Forest

quote:
We work with BLM to maintain roads and trails to discourage and decrease people impact of the fragile eco system in the forest.
File a monthly report with BLM documenting the hours for volunteers; this is important and very helpful in our efforts to secure funding. It will also be useful in building our clout with decision makers and opinion leaders from the most local level up to the administration.

WOW..read that sentence in bold again.

quote:
The Center for Biological Diversity has DEMANDED

DEMANDED! Who are they? Lets look at their website

Center for Biological Diversity MISSION

quote:
Center for Biological Diversity was founded beneath the ancient ponderosa pines of New Mexico’s Gila wilderness, where Kierán Suckling, Peter Galvin, and Todd Schulke met while surveying owls for the U.S. Forest Service. All three were in their early twenties, with a passion for wild places; Kierán was a doctoral student in philosophy, Peter was training in conservation biology, and Todd had a background running outdoor-education programs for high-risk kids. When their surveys turned up a rare Mexican spotted owl nest in an old-growth tree, and they found out that same tree was part of a vast area slated to be razed in a massive timber sale, they took their findings to the local Forest Service manager. The Forest Service had been entrusted with shielding sensitive species from harm, but it soon became clear the agency was more invested in its relationship with big timber than in its commitment to the public to protect forest wildlife. The timber sale would go forward, in violation of the Service’s own rules.

The three young men promptly took the story to a local paper.

In the end, that big old tree never fell to the chainsaws

"big old tree".

another non-partisan lobbying group.

Thats sounds like a bunch of pretty unbiased organizations with no agenda in demonizing Bundy trying to kick him off the land.

Good thing the government is only interested in fairness to all.

This post was edited on 4/17/14 at 9:38 am

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Posted by PapiGogo

Baton Rouge, LA

Member since May 2012

382 posts

Posted on 4/17/14 at 11:20 am to LNCHBOX

quote:
It is still land they own, so it's theirs to do as they see fit.

Philosophically, who owns this land? The government owns nothing; The people own this land. Everything the government pays for is funded entirely by taxpayers dollars.

You have to be naive if you think this is about grazing fees. The IRS has $300 billion in outstanding taxes that they aren't collecting on.

IRS Owed 300 BILLION!

Not to mention the State Department can't account for 6 BILLION dollars over the last 6 years.

State Department missing 6 BILLION.

Don't you think the response to Bundy is a bit unbalanced? I'm proud that American's will still stand up for their fellow man.

I think people should read the Declaration of Independence. Our ancestors fought for sovereignty in conditions much less oppressive than what we face now.

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

This post was edited on 4/17/14 at 11:33 am

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