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Started By
Message
re: Opinions on Jimmy Graham not making the top 100 list?
Posted on 6/15/13 at 7:56 am to Sophandros
Posted on 6/15/13 at 7:56 am to Sophandros
quote:
A player with his injury history getting hurt is not bad luck...
Had never missed an NFL game to the point in his career and broke his forearm on a extra point try in the fourth quarter of a blowout
Thats just bad luck
Posted on 6/15/13 at 10:19 am to wildtigercat93
He fell in the draft because of his injury history in college, particularly his back. This is a fact.
What is he having surgery on this week?
Yep. His back.
To deny that Gronkowski has an injury history is, at best, dishonest.
ETA: I just remembered that you're the guy who fails to see any problem with Gronkowski's high profile partying.
What is he having surgery on this week?
Yep. His back.
To deny that Gronkowski has an injury history is, at best, dishonest.
ETA: I just remembered that you're the guy who fails to see any problem with Gronkowski's high profile partying.
This post was edited on 6/15/13 at 10:21 am
Posted on 6/15/13 at 11:12 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
wildtigercat93
You're not gonna out-debate Sophandros.
Posted on 6/15/13 at 1:16 pm to Sophandros
quote:
Yep. His back
Which has what to do with his forearm?
I never said Gronk doesnt have a history of injuries, just that the forearm break was pure bad luck. He doesnt have chronic broken arm syndrome or some shite
quote:
ETA: I just remembered that you're the guy who fails to see any problem with Gronkowski's high profile partying.
Until he gets arrested, injured, or otherwise in trouble doing it, i dont care.
I find it funny that years of people bitching about guys from the Pats being robots and then when any NFLer gets a DUI or something stupid like that you go "you have every advantage to stay out of trouble, how could you not do that!!!"
But then when a guy breaks both of those patterns, oh lord he should really be more like Brady and the rest of the pats, and gosh i see him on TMZ he is out of control!! That completely legal thing he is doing is outrageous!'
This post was edited on 6/15/13 at 1:20 pm
Posted on 6/15/13 at 2:44 pm to bonethug0108
quote:No he didn't. He only benefited from playing more games. I am in complete agreement that Graham should be on the list but the whole he produced better is completely bogus. Gronk broke his fore arm, missed four games and them came back to catch another touchdown and 40+ yards in limited action. Gronk was just about as productive as he could be.
Fact is Graham produced the better season last year. Not per game averages. Not career. Y'all keep trying to turn this into something it's not.
Also, Antonio gates put together 4 seasons in a row that are eerily similar to Graham's last season. Than tacked on another 1100 yard season after he slowed down. He only has one year in his career where he has caught less than seven touchdowns.
I'd be willing to bet that Graham or Gronk will see 16 years of play either.
This post was edited on 6/15/13 at 2:50 pm
Posted on 6/15/13 at 5:32 pm to wildtigercat93
So as far as you're concerned, it's OK to put yourself in terrible situations until something bad happens. You know, kike Big Ben or all of those DUI guys you referenced.
Posted on 6/15/13 at 5:43 pm to Sophandros
I wouldnt consider a club a bad situation unless drinking and driving is involved or its a place like Clubb Rags thats your moral high horse, not mine
Posted on 6/15/13 at 9:08 pm to Sanchito
I said Graham produced the better season, not that he had better production per game. What part of that are you not comprehending?
The list is about who had the best 2012 season, and of those on the list only Gonzalez and Witten had a better season. I don't give a flying frick what Gronkowski was on pace to do. He didn't do it and he didn't have a better season than Graham period.
And for some reason you are posing your arguments as if I'm saying any of these guys suck. I'm most certainly not. They are all great(Graham and Gronk so far; Gonzalez and Gates throughout their careers).
My point is Gonzalez is far and away the best TE of this generation to this point. Gates is clearly second best.
Graham and Gronkowski have a chance to pass them but they are still young. Let's let their careers play out a bit more before we put them in the hall of fame.
But for this list, Graham clearly had a better SEASON and deserved to be on this list in front of every TE except Gonzalez and Witten.
Gonzalez being rated so low is "criminal" and leaving Jimmy off is just as bad. Gronkowski and Davis being ranked in front of them is clear bias and agenda.
The list is about who had the best 2012 season, and of those on the list only Gonzalez and Witten had a better season. I don't give a flying frick what Gronkowski was on pace to do. He didn't do it and he didn't have a better season than Graham period.
And for some reason you are posing your arguments as if I'm saying any of these guys suck. I'm most certainly not. They are all great(Graham and Gronk so far; Gonzalez and Gates throughout their careers).
My point is Gonzalez is far and away the best TE of this generation to this point. Gates is clearly second best.
Graham and Gronkowski have a chance to pass them but they are still young. Let's let their careers play out a bit more before we put them in the hall of fame.
But for this list, Graham clearly had a better SEASON and deserved to be on this list in front of every TE except Gonzalez and Witten.
Gonzalez being rated so low is "criminal" and leaving Jimmy off is just as bad. Gronkowski and Davis being ranked in front of them is clear bias and agenda.
Posted on 6/15/13 at 9:51 pm to Patrick O Rly
I think that the drops killed Jimmy regarding this list and his recognition last season. Hopefully he redeems himself
Posted on 6/15/13 at 9:56 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
But for this list, Graham clearly had a better SEASON and deserved to be on this list in front of every TE except Gonzalez and Witten.
Graham had a better statistical season than Gonzalez last year, and started seven fewer games.
Posted on 6/15/13 at 11:07 pm to lsutigers1992
I should have phrased that differently. I meant Graham clearly had a better season than any other TE except those 2. They were clearly the best 3 TEs last year.
Where Jimmy ranks between them I think is debatable. Some could say he had the best overall season.
Some might say while Witten didn't have the same amount of tds, those can be situational and being that he put up the most catches and yards he should be ranked first.
Tony also had a good overall season, finishing second in catches and having only 1 less td than Jimmy.
All 3 finished 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in catches and yards and Graham tied for 2nd in tds while Gonzalez finished 4th.
Either way, where these 3 finished(or didn't; and I should have included Witten earlier) on the list is disappointing. But again, it's clearly a biased list and it doesn't mean crap for next year.
Where Jimmy ranks between them I think is debatable. Some could say he had the best overall season.
Some might say while Witten didn't have the same amount of tds, those can be situational and being that he put up the most catches and yards he should be ranked first.
Tony also had a good overall season, finishing second in catches and having only 1 less td than Jimmy.
All 3 finished 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in catches and yards and Graham tied for 2nd in tds while Gonzalez finished 4th.
Either way, where these 3 finished(or didn't; and I should have included Witten earlier) on the list is disappointing. But again, it's clearly a biased list and it doesn't mean crap for next year.
Posted on 6/16/13 at 9:52 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
I wouldnt consider a club a bad situation unless drinking and driving is involved or its a place like Clubb Rags thats your moral high horse, not mine
I don't have a moral high horse. I'm just pointing out that he's always in the tabloids for out of control exploits at night clubs, kind of like Jeremy Shockey. Eventually, when you're the party guy, it catches up to you.
I'm just saying that he should tone it down a bit and keep a lower profile.
Nice attempt at deflecting by accusing me of having a moral high horse though.
But let's get back to his injury history. Teams shied away from him in the draft because of his injury history. Regardless of how he got injured this season, he is injury prone. He has played in fewer than twelve games in two out of his three seasons so far and may not be ready for training camp this season because of his back surgery.
That's a concern.
And I'm willing to wager that if he played for the Jets or Dolphins, you would agree with me regarding both his image and his injuries.
Posted on 6/16/13 at 11:28 am to Sophandros
quote:
He has played in fewer than twelve games in two out of his three seasons so far
Yeahh....thats not true
16 Games in 2010
16 Games in 2011
11 Games last year
This post was edited on 6/16/13 at 11:29 am
Posted on 6/16/13 at 5:02 pm to bonethug0108
quote:So basically catches and yards are all we're gauging this on? You must be a beast arse PPR fantasy manager.
I said Graham produced the better season, not that he had better production per game. What part of that are you not comprehending?
Posted on 6/16/13 at 5:43 pm to Sanchito
quote:
So basically catches and yards are all we're gauging this on? You must be a beast arse PPR fantasy manager.
Are you suggesting that Gonzalez is an elite run blocker?
Posted on 6/16/13 at 6:29 pm to Sanchito
Mostly yes because that is where the TE position is trending. Blocking is important but it has definitely become a secondary attribute. Teams aren't drafting blocking TEs high in the draft and they are not getting paid the big bucks.
So how do you get in position to score? You make catches and gain yards. The TEs that can catch like top WRs are the ones that teams are looking for.
And despite what some people think, Gronk is NOT a top tier blocking TE. He is good at it and is certainly one of the better ones that can also catch. But he does not block like a lineman.
And Tony is no slouch at blocking. He isn't as strong at the point of attack but has good technique and seals well.
Yes Graham isn't as good of a blocker but he isn't horrible at it like some people make him out to be. And last year he had an injury that makes it damn near impossible to block well. I think it's wiser to judge where he'll be as a blocker based on how he does this year.
So how do you get in position to score? You make catches and gain yards. The TEs that can catch like top WRs are the ones that teams are looking for.
And despite what some people think, Gronk is NOT a top tier blocking TE. He is good at it and is certainly one of the better ones that can also catch. But he does not block like a lineman.
And Tony is no slouch at blocking. He isn't as strong at the point of attack but has good technique and seals well.
Yes Graham isn't as good of a blocker but he isn't horrible at it like some people make him out to be. And last year he had an injury that makes it damn near impossible to block well. I think it's wiser to judge where he'll be as a blocker based on how he does this year.
Posted on 6/16/13 at 6:35 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
bonethug0108
Pretty committed to this argument, huh?
Posted on 6/16/13 at 6:51 pm to lsutigers1992
quote:I never mention anything about blocking. I was talking about production. Production to me starts with TDs for TEs. My next thing I gauge is yards per reception. After that is is percentage of targets caught. Then yards,then catches. Age and the system they're in is factored in as well.
Are you suggesting that Gonzalez is an elite run blocker?
With the amount the ball is thrown now and the rules. A tight end is the most dangerous weapon on offense. TEs who catch 80 and 90 balls yet only are averaging around yet average around 10 yards per catch don't impress me too much when safeties have had their legs cut out from underneath them by the league. If you violently try to dislodge the ball, you will be penalized. How the hell do you keep dudes who are 6'5"+ and 250+ from catching the ball then, especially with the accuracy of the elite Qbs. Yardage is very overated in today's passing game. Advanced stats will tell you the truly efficient and productive players when their "stats" might not match up to others. It is why Aaron Rodgers won the MVP over Brees in 2011. The dude almost averaged a first down every drop back.
My whole problem is how was Graham so productive but Gronk wasn't. 200 yards doesn't really mean much to me when these guys put up 130+ in any game. Gronkowski can block his arse off too. He is among the best. I'm not sure what some people are watching.
Posted on 6/16/13 at 9:34 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
And despite what some people think, Gronk is NOT a top tier blocking TE. He is good at it and is certainly one of the better ones that can also catch. But he does not block like a lineman.
Please name all these TEs that are blocking like lineman. TIA
And Gronk is certainly one of the best blocking TEs in the game. To say otherwise is just ridiculous, i dont care how many semi-qualifiers you try to put around it.
Posted on 6/17/13 at 1:13 am to 69sleuth
I have a lot of thoughts and I care about a lot of things... This isn't one of them.
This post was edited on 6/17/13 at 3:07 am
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