- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme—the Internet’s favorite currency will collapse.
Posted on 4/18/13 at 10:42 am to LSURussian
Posted on 4/18/13 at 10:42 am to LSURussian
quote:
I see the basic problem.
You really don't understand what a Ponzi scheme is.
Russian's playbook:
1. BS
2. BS
3. BS
4. BS
5. Reinforce previous BS by pointing out opponent's typo
Posted on 4/18/13 at 10:43 am to gizmoflak
quote:
congrats, you just described every IPO
You have no idea how an IPO works. That much I know.
Posted on 4/18/13 at 10:43 am to LSURussian
quote:
The explanation has been covered. You choose to ignore it.
Early adopters benefitting the most =/= ponzi
Try again
Posted on 4/18/13 at 10:45 am to gizmoflak
quote:
Try again
Do you want us to dumb it down? How about we just call it monetary musical chairs?
Posted on 4/18/13 at 10:46 am to gizmoflak
quote:
FTR, I'm not sitting on either side of the fence, and I don't have a skin in the bitcoin game, but all the incessant & disingenuous denigration of bitcoin is really annoying. It prevents any rational discussion of what, to me, is an intriguing technology.
Thank you for stating this!
Posted on 4/18/13 at 10:46 am to Broke
quote:
You have no idea how an IPO works. That much I know.
You're right, I've never drawn up IPO papers for filing with the SEC.*
* Rebuttal tactic based on Step 2 of the Russian playbook.
Posted on 4/18/13 at 10:47 am to gizmoflak
If you want to play your silly game, I'll play along.
Gizmo's playbook:
1. Ask for an explanation
2. Ignore explanation
3. Ignore more explanations
4. Make silly comparison of a cash/profit generating enterprise to bitcoin
5. Ignore he was wrong with his silly comparison
6. Declare victory and takes his ball home
Gizmo's playbook:
1. Ask for an explanation
2. Ignore explanation
3. Ignore more explanations
4. Make silly comparison of a cash/profit generating enterprise to bitcoin
5. Ignore he was wrong with his silly comparison
6. Declare victory and takes his ball home
This post was edited on 4/18/13 at 10:47 am
Posted on 4/18/13 at 10:47 am to Broke
quote:
Do you want us to dumb it down? How about we just call it monetary musical chairs?
I want to know what facts, if true, would make bitcoin a ponzi.
I'm dum, so type real slow for me.
Posted on 4/18/13 at 10:49 am to gizmoflak
quote:
I'm dum, so type real slow for me.
I can't type that slow....
Posted on 4/18/13 at 10:52 am to LSURussian
quote:
Gizmo's playbook:
1. Ask for an explanation
2. Ignore explanation
3. Ignore more explanations
4. Make silly comparison of a cash/profit generating enterprise to bitcoin
5. Ignore he was wrong with his silly comparison
6. Declare victory and takes his ball home
After step 1, the replies were:
"It's a ponzi because I say it is."
"I already explained how it's a ponzi."
"Read the OP article."
Step 2 is moot because there was no coherent explanation in the first place.
Step 3 is moot because there was no coherent explanation after repeated requests for one.
Step 4 falls right in line with how you described the bitcoin operation.
Step 5 is moot because I've never been proven wrong.
Step 6 is moot because I'm not out for victory.... All I want to know is how bitcoin is a ponzi scheme, and I have yet to hear any rational, logical, realistic set of evidence, facts, circumstances, explanation, or the like, tending to show that it is a ponzi.
once again, early adopters profiting =/= ponzi
Posted on 4/18/13 at 10:56 am to gizmoflak
Since there has been no ponzi theory articulated in this now 12-page thread, I'll make my own assumption:
- Nakamoto invented an open source crypto currency.
- He and his buddies mined 200k bitcoins using a pentium I at a cost of $35.67 in electricity bills.
- They patiently waited until April 2013 when each bitcoin was worth well over 100 USD
- Then, they sold their 200,000 BTC on the open market for millions of dollars.
Sounds like a ponzi scheme, huh?
- Nakamoto invented an open source crypto currency.
- He and his buddies mined 200k bitcoins using a pentium I at a cost of $35.67 in electricity bills.
- They patiently waited until April 2013 when each bitcoin was worth well over 100 USD
- Then, they sold their 200,000 BTC on the open market for millions of dollars.
Sounds like a ponzi scheme, huh?
Posted on 4/18/13 at 11:01 am to gizmoflak
quote:
I want to know what facts, if true, would make bitcoin a ponzi.
I'm dum, so type real slow for me.
If you call him a poo poo head you'll have a trifecta.
Posted on 4/18/13 at 11:07 am to Broke
From the OP article:
So even the Slate article -- which Russian holds up as proof that bitcoin is a ponzi -- doesn't allege that bitcoin is a ponzi scheme.
Rather, it supposes that bitcoin will fail because of "deflationary features" and/or the emergence of competitors.
The OP article's title is misleading, probably to lure in lazy readers who take the title as gospel and link to the article without bothering to read its contents.
quote:
A regular Ponzi scheme collapses when people realize that earlier investors are being paid out of the investments of later investors rather than from the returns on an underlying asset. Bitcoin will collapse when people realize that it can’t survive as a currency because of its built-in deflationary features, or because of the emergence of bytecoins, or both.
So even the Slate article -- which Russian holds up as proof that bitcoin is a ponzi -- doesn't allege that bitcoin is a ponzi scheme.
Rather, it supposes that bitcoin will fail because of "deflationary features" and/or the emergence of competitors.
The OP article's title is misleading, probably to lure in lazy readers who take the title as gospel and link to the article without bothering to read its contents.
Posted on 4/18/13 at 11:08 am to Broke
quote:
If you call him a poo poo head you'll have a trifecta.
The next step in Russian's playbook is ad hom attacks, which I won't resort to
ETA: corrected a typo before Russian could comment on it
This post was edited on 4/18/13 at 11:54 am
Posted on 4/18/13 at 12:12 pm to gizmoflak
Why do you continue to ignore the other statements in the article such as:
Once again, I'll try to explain to you: I don't have "proof" it is a Ponzi scheme.
If there was proof available, the legal authorities would already be all over it. Well designed Ponzi schemes don't leave proof laying around for someone on an internet message board to discover.
What I have written, repeatedly, is that bitcoin has all the characteristics of a Ponzi scheme and therefore, in my OPINION, it is a Ponzi scheme.
Before you ask, AGAIN, what is it about bitcoin that has the characteristics of a Ponzi scheme, I will explain that, AGAIN.
A Ponzi scheme is where earlier investors are paid out at a profit from the cash paid by newer investors AND there is no cash/profit flows generated from the underlying investment.
And, AGAIN, this differs from an IPO because the company issuing the IPO is expected to generate cash/profit flows which will increase its value over time. Investors buy shares in the IPO with the expectation of those cash/profit cash flows which will increase the value of their ownership in the company.
The do not buy the shares JUST BECAUSE new investors will be willing to pay more for the shares than the earlier investor paid AND there are no cash/profit flows from the company.
In anticipation of your typical response let me repeat your playbook:
I'm guessing you will bypass #1-5 and go straight to #6.
In any case, I won't waste more time repeating the same explanations just so you can try to play gotcha'.
quote:
More than anything else, it resembles a Ponzi scheme—
quote:
Russian holds up as proof that bitcoin is a ponzi
Once again, I'll try to explain to you: I don't have "proof" it is a Ponzi scheme.
If there was proof available, the legal authorities would already be all over it. Well designed Ponzi schemes don't leave proof laying around for someone on an internet message board to discover.
What I have written, repeatedly, is that bitcoin has all the characteristics of a Ponzi scheme and therefore, in my OPINION, it is a Ponzi scheme.
Before you ask, AGAIN, what is it about bitcoin that has the characteristics of a Ponzi scheme, I will explain that, AGAIN.
A Ponzi scheme is where earlier investors are paid out at a profit from the cash paid by newer investors AND there is no cash/profit flows generated from the underlying investment.
And, AGAIN, this differs from an IPO because the company issuing the IPO is expected to generate cash/profit flows which will increase its value over time. Investors buy shares in the IPO with the expectation of those cash/profit cash flows which will increase the value of their ownership in the company.
The do not buy the shares JUST BECAUSE new investors will be willing to pay more for the shares than the earlier investor paid AND there are no cash/profit flows from the company.
In anticipation of your typical response let me repeat your playbook:
quote:
1. Ask for an explanation
2. Ignore explanation
3. Ignore more explanations
4. Make silly comparison of a cash/profit generating enterprise to bitcoin
5. Ignore he was wrong with his silly comparison
6. Declare victory and takes his ball home
I'm guessing you will bypass #1-5 and go straight to #6.
In any case, I won't waste more time repeating the same explanations just so you can try to play gotcha'.
Posted on 4/18/13 at 12:18 pm to LSURussian
Not related to this argument, but another Bitcoin thread definitely wasn't needed. A beer festival in Fort Worth posted this on Facebook.
Posted on 4/18/13 at 12:26 pm to LSURussian
I can agree that certain characteristics of the bitcoin market resemble those of a Ponzi scheme. Early adopters see their stake in bitcoins rise in value and then they sell them off at a profit. No doubt that is happening.
But the M.O. of a Ponzi scheme is that a single entity takes in and dishes out investment money (i.e., exclsuive control over the money).
That is not happening with bitcoin.
You even admitted in previous posts that bitcoin is traded like a commodity. Victims of ponzi schemes generally aren't free to trade their stakes to third parties -- they can only trade with and through the ponzi schemer. Holders of bitcoins can trade with anyone for anything.
I know you realllly want bitcoins to be a ponzi scheme, but that square peg just doesn't fit in the round hole.
ETA: I know Russian will ignore my post and focus on this sentence:
by cheekily pointing out the limited universe of vendors that accept bitcoins
But the M.O. of a Ponzi scheme is that a single entity takes in and dishes out investment money (i.e., exclsuive control over the money).
That is not happening with bitcoin.
You even admitted in previous posts that bitcoin is traded like a commodity. Victims of ponzi schemes generally aren't free to trade their stakes to third parties -- they can only trade with and through the ponzi schemer. Holders of bitcoins can trade with anyone for anything.
I know you realllly want bitcoins to be a ponzi scheme, but that square peg just doesn't fit in the round hole.
ETA: I know Russian will ignore my post and focus on this sentence:
quote:
Holders of bitcoins can trade with anyone for anything.
by cheekily pointing out the limited universe of vendors that accept bitcoins
This post was edited on 4/18/13 at 12:29 pm
Posted on 4/18/13 at 12:29 pm to txtiger21
Here is some breaking news about the Ponzi scheme known as bitcoin (Like you, I didn't want to start a new thread.):
Bitcoin exchange BitFloor halts operations, shuts down April 18, 2013
quote:
The New York-based exchange, which specialized in trades of the digital peer-to-peer currency, announced the closure with a note on its home page penned by its founder, Roman Shtylman:
I am sorry to announce that due to circumstances outside of our control BitFloor must cease all trading operations indefinitely. Unfortunately, our US bank account is scheduled to be closed and we can no longer provide the same level of USD deposits and withdrawals as we have in the past.
This closure marks the apparent end for the troubled exchange, which temporarily suspended operations last September after the theft of 24,000 BTC.
At the time, Bitcoin was trading for $10.40, making the virtual heist's score worth nearly a quarter of a million dollars.
Posted on 4/18/13 at 12:31 pm to gizmoflak
Yep, straight to #6. I was right!
Posted on 4/18/13 at 12:41 pm to LSURussian
Russian's updated playbook:
1. BS
2. BS
3. BS
4. BS
5. Reinforce previous BS by pointing out opponent's typo
6. ad hom attacks
7. declaration of victory
1. BS
2. BS
3. BS
4. BS
5. Reinforce previous BS by pointing out opponent's typo
6. ad hom attacks
7. declaration of victory
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News