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re: England and WC 2014

Posted on 12/21/12 at 4:21 pm to
Posted by thenry712
Zasullia, Ukraine
Member since Nov 2008
15795 posts
Posted on 12/21/12 at 4:21 pm to
You basically just said that the margin of victory in soccer is smaller than every other sport, yet you picked and chose certain incidents from other games without mentioning countless others. Statistics tell stories from games when the scoreline just tells you the end result.

In that 2010 Final do you not remember a certain Nigel De Jong kung-fu kick to Xabi Alonso's chest? An incident the referee later admitted should have been a red card. Do you not remember Iker Casillas making a slight touch off his heel to prevent Robben from scoring? What about Sketlenburg denying Sergio Ramos an early goal? What about Ramos missing an open header late? Or Jesus Navas denied by Heitenga?

Games are 90 minute narratives. The entire narrative doesn't come down to one incident. This is where stats tell the tale. Each stat represents an on field plot occurrence in the overall narrative.

quote:

This after winning a gritty semi 1-0 on a late header off a corner from their center back, how English of them.



As for the semifinal against Germany, Spain's persistant use of the short corner allowed them to score late on a direct corner. Germany sent players to defend close to the ball, and it left Puyol open in the box. How very Spanish of them.

quote:

This is much more legend than fact.



See what guys like Pele, Zidane, Xavi and Guardiola say about Scholes

quote:

Every recent tournament they have qualified for they have advanced to the knockout stages and generally given a good account of themselves, results wise, outside the 2nd half of a tainted Germany game in South Africa.


I wouldn't say good account of themselves. England performs average in group play and the poor in knockout rounds. In four knockout stage games (accounting for 420 minutes of play) in major tournaments since 2006, England have scored 2 goals. Unless Sven, Capello and Hodgson each set the objective to play to penalties at kickoff, that's an abysmal return.
This post was edited on 12/21/12 at 4:23 pm
Posted by hendersonshands
Univ. of Louisiana Ragin Cajuns
Member since Oct 2007
160118 posts
Posted on 12/21/12 at 4:35 pm to
Randy is just a dedicated troll. He'll argue for hours about something he knows nothing about, which is just soccer in general.
Posted by RandySavage
Member since May 2012
30968 posts
Posted on 12/21/12 at 9:23 pm to
quote:

In that 2010 Final do you not remember a certain Nigel De Jong kung-fu kick to Xabi Alonso's chest? An incident the referee later admitted should have been a red card


Whether you think that's a red card or not it had nothing to do with the outcome of the game. If he had been given a red there it would have accomplished nothing except to ruin a World Cup Final over a clumsy arse challenge. A huge difference in that and grabbing someone from behind when they are behind you and in on goal.

quote:

Statistics tell stories from games when the scoreline just tells you the end result.


Personally, IDGAF about a story. Who won the game is the only thing I care about. I also don't care how they did it (unless horrible officiating is involved). I know you, and most soccer people, disagree which is really the crux of the matter here. Really my only point is that results are what matter and all this "deserved" crap is total bs. To me, the team that put the ball in the back of the net the most times is the team that "deserved" to win.

quote:

Games are 90 minute narratives. The entire narrative doesn't come down to one incident.


In most sports that is true but in soccer the game very often does come down to one incident. It's the blessing and the curse of the game.

quote:

As for the semifinal against Germany, Spain's persistant use of the short corner allowed them to score late on a direct corner. Germany sent players to defend close to the ball, and it left Puyol open in the box. How very Spanish of them.


Germany had 7 players in the box to 5 for Spain, poor marking and a determined effort from Puyol are what led to that goal. #English

quote:

I wouldn't say good account of themselves. England performs average in group play and the poor in knockout rounds. In four knockout stage games (accounting for 420 minutes of play) in major tournaments since 2006, England have scored 2 goals.


Well three really. They also have only been beaten once in those matches and that in dubious circumstances.

Also, if you want to judge goals scored per minutes played as the barometer then what are we to make of Spain? Take away the goals they scored against 9 man Italy and they average 1 goal for every 90 minutes and have only twice scored more than 1 in 10 knockout games. Twice is also the number they have failed to score in 120 minutes.

Again, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that. Their formula obviously works and they should continue it. My only point is that it's not the only way to win a soccer match. How different would the perception of these teams be if their penalty records (which like I said, and as you know, has nothing to do with the game or style of play) of late were reversed. Would you then say that the English style is the best?

In football terms you could say a team like LSU or Alabama has not "evolved" with the game with so many schools going to a spread and throwing it all over the field while they continue to line up in the I and run it down your throat and play defense. However, they are both still pretty damn successful with what they do and England can be as well.
This post was edited on 12/21/12 at 9:29 pm
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