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Started By
Message
re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
Posted on 6/26/13 at 10:13 am to OaklandFire
Posted on 6/26/13 at 10:13 am to OaklandFire
Part 6:
From: LINK
Kvasir
-Following a civil war fought between the gods, the Æsir and Vanir called truce, and affirmed their pact by spitting into a vat. From this spit, a being called Kvasir was born, already fully grown. Sound weird? Yeah. But, anyway, he was supposedly the wisest of the "gods" (although, it's not exactly clear whether he was considered a god or not. He's more akin to a godlike being -- and some texts even refer to him as a "man"), and could answer any question posed to him. He travelled throughout the world, spreading his knowledge, and acting as a teacher to both gods and men... that is, until two dwarves invited him into their home. Rather unwittingly, he accepted their invitation and was subsequently murdered by them upon entering (which, of course, was ironic, being that his knowledge was so vast, yet he was totally naive when it came to street smarts). The dwarves then drained his blood into a vat and mixed it with honey, creating the "Mead of Poetry", which conferred great wisdom upon those who drank it. In ASOIAF, Jojen Reed was a precocious boy who possessed wisdom far beyond his years, so much so, he was called the "Little Grandfather". He was born after Robert's Rebellion, and travelled beyond the Wall with Bran, acting as his teacher and guide along the way. Although not a greenseer like Bran, the gift of greensight was strong in him, and he answered all of the questions Bran posed to him about it. That is, until he was invited to the cave of Bloodraven and the Children of the Forest, where he was murdered and drained of his blood. The Children then mixed his blood with weirwood seeds, creating the wisdom-imbuing "weirwood paste" they fed to Bran. Or, at least, I think that's how (and why) it went down. Because, even though GRRM has yet to reveal Jojen's fate, all signs point to him being direwolf chow.
Hati
-Hati is a warg (i.e. a monstrous wolf) and a son of Fenrir. His name means "He Who Hates", and he is said to chase the moon through the night's sky. Come Ragnarök, he is foretold to swallow the moon. In ASOIAF, Hati is represented by Arya Stark, who is both a warg and a wolf. She clearly hates her enemies, more so than any of the other Stark children, as she recites a list of names of the people she wants to murder each night before she goes to bed. She is also "chasing the moon" in her quest to become a Faceless Man (FYI: a moon is carved on the door of the House of Black & White, which is where the Kindly Old Man trains her to become an assassin). So, her becoming a Faceless Man is a sign that Ragnarök has begun (i.e. she has finally caught the moon -- Valar Morghulis). On a side note, I believe Arya is destined to be killed in her sleep, while dreaming her wolf dream. Her soul will then be transferred to the body of Nymeria, who is stalking the Trident with a massive pack of wolves (i.e. the pack Arya has always wanted). Nymeria was a legendary warrior queen in Westerosi history who crossed the Narrow Sea with a fleet of ships in ancient times to conquer Dorne. Her relationship to Arya is symbolic in the sense that Arya's soul will transmigrate across the Narrow Sea into her wolf's body when she dies, to conquer the Riverlands and/or Winterfell. This will also be the opposite of what happens to Jon Snow, as his wolf -- Ghost -- will die when he is killed by the Night's Watch, as foreshadowed on the TV show, when Jon threatens the Wildling warg, Orell (i.e. "When I kill you, what happens to your eagle? Does it drop dead from the sky?" -- paraphrasing).
Fafnir
-Fafnir is a dwarf whose father is the richest man in the world. In an act of treachery, Fafnir murders his father and steals his gold. He then flees with the treasure and transforms into a dragon in order to protect it. And, although Fafnir is not involved in the Ragnarök mythology, he is the central antagonist in the tales of the legendary hero Sigurd (and, I have yet to identify Sigurd). So, it's difficult to say what role he will play in future events, but Fafnir is clearly Tyrion Lannister. Like Fafnir, Tyrion is also a dwarf who slays his wealthy father and then flees across the Narrow Sea to the protection of a dragon (Danaerys Targaryen). He then uses his supposed status as "heir of Casterly Rock" to join the Second Sons mercenary company, which in itself is a clue -- Tyrion is the heir of Casterly Rock... NOT a Second Son. He is Tywin's only son. But Jaime is a second son (second to Rhaegar), as is Jon Snow (second to Aegon), Bran (second to Robb) and Stannis (second to Robert). So, there is clearly something to that. But it's funny that the clues in both Tyrion's name (i.e. Tyr) and the Second Sons allude to Jaime rather than Tyrion. Perhaps Jaime is Sigurd? If GRRM used Thor as a platform for Hoenir, it's possible he could combine the stories of Tyr & Sigurd as well.
Garmr
-[Edit: see post "Direwolves, Wargs & the Stark Children" for information about Rickon as Garmr. I had Garmr tentatively identified as Gregor Clegane in this post, but a commenter was able to make a much better connection to Rickon.] Garmr is the "bloodstained watchdog who guards Hel's gate". He is described as a massive dog, the "greatest of dogs", who will similarly slip his bonds at Ragnarök and attack the god Tyr. What's interesting about Garmr is that he was only added to the mythology in the 12th - 13th century by the Icelandic poet, Snorri Sturluson (inspired by the hellhound Cerberus, from Greek mythology) and was not present in the earliest tellings of Ragnarök. It is believed he is akin to Fenrir, and was substituted as an adversary for Tyr after Tyr was supplanted as the primary god in the pantheon by Odin. Prior to this switch, Tyr was foretold to prevail over Fenrir in his role as "the Mighty One" (i.e. Azor Ahai). And since Aerys & Robert Baratheon have already been killed off in ASOIAF, I believe GRRM is adhering to the earlier versions of the mythology. With that being said, we do seem to have a match for Garmr in Gregor Clegane -- the Mountain. While it's possible Garmr is Sandor Clegane -- the Hound -- Sandor is not quite as big as his older brother, and Garmr is described as the "greatest of dogs". Not to mention the fact that Sandor has a deep-seated fear of fire -- because of Gregor -- and is unlikely to back the Lord of Light under any circumstances (and, it appears he now walks in the light of the Seven, if we are to believe he's the monk Brienne sees on the Quiet Isle). However, Gregor is in perfect position to be converted to the Lord of Light, as he was killed by Oberyn Martell and subsequently resurrected by Qyburn. And, even though Qyburn is a disgraced Maester, rather than a Red Priest, the assumption here is that Gregor's zombified condition creates an avenue for the Lord of Light to manipulate. So, this could mean that Gregor will "slip his bonds" by breaking the hold that Qyburn & Cersei have over him and going rogue (not rogue, per se, since he's being controlled by Bloodraven, but rogue in the eyes of Qyburn & Cersei).
Hrym
-Hrym is the captain of the ship Naglfar, which sets sail from the lands of the east to ferry hordes of giants into Asgard during the battle of Ragnarök. There isn't much to him other than that, but he's represented by Victarion Greyjoy, who has taken the Iron Fleet east to pick up Danaerys Targaryen and her dragons.
From: LINK
Kvasir
-Following a civil war fought between the gods, the Æsir and Vanir called truce, and affirmed their pact by spitting into a vat. From this spit, a being called Kvasir was born, already fully grown. Sound weird? Yeah. But, anyway, he was supposedly the wisest of the "gods" (although, it's not exactly clear whether he was considered a god or not. He's more akin to a godlike being -- and some texts even refer to him as a "man"), and could answer any question posed to him. He travelled throughout the world, spreading his knowledge, and acting as a teacher to both gods and men... that is, until two dwarves invited him into their home. Rather unwittingly, he accepted their invitation and was subsequently murdered by them upon entering (which, of course, was ironic, being that his knowledge was so vast, yet he was totally naive when it came to street smarts). The dwarves then drained his blood into a vat and mixed it with honey, creating the "Mead of Poetry", which conferred great wisdom upon those who drank it. In ASOIAF, Jojen Reed was a precocious boy who possessed wisdom far beyond his years, so much so, he was called the "Little Grandfather". He was born after Robert's Rebellion, and travelled beyond the Wall with Bran, acting as his teacher and guide along the way. Although not a greenseer like Bran, the gift of greensight was strong in him, and he answered all of the questions Bran posed to him about it. That is, until he was invited to the cave of Bloodraven and the Children of the Forest, where he was murdered and drained of his blood. The Children then mixed his blood with weirwood seeds, creating the wisdom-imbuing "weirwood paste" they fed to Bran. Or, at least, I think that's how (and why) it went down. Because, even though GRRM has yet to reveal Jojen's fate, all signs point to him being direwolf chow.
Hati
-Hati is a warg (i.e. a monstrous wolf) and a son of Fenrir. His name means "He Who Hates", and he is said to chase the moon through the night's sky. Come Ragnarök, he is foretold to swallow the moon. In ASOIAF, Hati is represented by Arya Stark, who is both a warg and a wolf. She clearly hates her enemies, more so than any of the other Stark children, as she recites a list of names of the people she wants to murder each night before she goes to bed. She is also "chasing the moon" in her quest to become a Faceless Man (FYI: a moon is carved on the door of the House of Black & White, which is where the Kindly Old Man trains her to become an assassin). So, her becoming a Faceless Man is a sign that Ragnarök has begun (i.e. she has finally caught the moon -- Valar Morghulis). On a side note, I believe Arya is destined to be killed in her sleep, while dreaming her wolf dream. Her soul will then be transferred to the body of Nymeria, who is stalking the Trident with a massive pack of wolves (i.e. the pack Arya has always wanted). Nymeria was a legendary warrior queen in Westerosi history who crossed the Narrow Sea with a fleet of ships in ancient times to conquer Dorne. Her relationship to Arya is symbolic in the sense that Arya's soul will transmigrate across the Narrow Sea into her wolf's body when she dies, to conquer the Riverlands and/or Winterfell. This will also be the opposite of what happens to Jon Snow, as his wolf -- Ghost -- will die when he is killed by the Night's Watch, as foreshadowed on the TV show, when Jon threatens the Wildling warg, Orell (i.e. "When I kill you, what happens to your eagle? Does it drop dead from the sky?" -- paraphrasing).
Fafnir
-Fafnir is a dwarf whose father is the richest man in the world. In an act of treachery, Fafnir murders his father and steals his gold. He then flees with the treasure and transforms into a dragon in order to protect it. And, although Fafnir is not involved in the Ragnarök mythology, he is the central antagonist in the tales of the legendary hero Sigurd (and, I have yet to identify Sigurd). So, it's difficult to say what role he will play in future events, but Fafnir is clearly Tyrion Lannister. Like Fafnir, Tyrion is also a dwarf who slays his wealthy father and then flees across the Narrow Sea to the protection of a dragon (Danaerys Targaryen). He then uses his supposed status as "heir of Casterly Rock" to join the Second Sons mercenary company, which in itself is a clue -- Tyrion is the heir of Casterly Rock... NOT a Second Son. He is Tywin's only son. But Jaime is a second son (second to Rhaegar), as is Jon Snow (second to Aegon), Bran (second to Robb) and Stannis (second to Robert). So, there is clearly something to that. But it's funny that the clues in both Tyrion's name (i.e. Tyr) and the Second Sons allude to Jaime rather than Tyrion. Perhaps Jaime is Sigurd? If GRRM used Thor as a platform for Hoenir, it's possible he could combine the stories of Tyr & Sigurd as well.
Garmr
-[Edit: see post "Direwolves, Wargs & the Stark Children" for information about Rickon as Garmr. I had Garmr tentatively identified as Gregor Clegane in this post, but a commenter was able to make a much better connection to Rickon.] Garmr is the "bloodstained watchdog who guards Hel's gate". He is described as a massive dog, the "greatest of dogs", who will similarly slip his bonds at Ragnarök and attack the god Tyr. What's interesting about Garmr is that he was only added to the mythology in the 12th - 13th century by the Icelandic poet, Snorri Sturluson (inspired by the hellhound Cerberus, from Greek mythology) and was not present in the earliest tellings of Ragnarök. It is believed he is akin to Fenrir, and was substituted as an adversary for Tyr after Tyr was supplanted as the primary god in the pantheon by Odin. Prior to this switch, Tyr was foretold to prevail over Fenrir in his role as "the Mighty One" (i.e. Azor Ahai). And since Aerys & Robert Baratheon have already been killed off in ASOIAF, I believe GRRM is adhering to the earlier versions of the mythology. With that being said, we do seem to have a match for Garmr in Gregor Clegane -- the Mountain. While it's possible Garmr is Sandor Clegane -- the Hound -- Sandor is not quite as big as his older brother, and Garmr is described as the "greatest of dogs". Not to mention the fact that Sandor has a deep-seated fear of fire -- because of Gregor -- and is unlikely to back the Lord of Light under any circumstances (and, it appears he now walks in the light of the Seven, if we are to believe he's the monk Brienne sees on the Quiet Isle). However, Gregor is in perfect position to be converted to the Lord of Light, as he was killed by Oberyn Martell and subsequently resurrected by Qyburn. And, even though Qyburn is a disgraced Maester, rather than a Red Priest, the assumption here is that Gregor's zombified condition creates an avenue for the Lord of Light to manipulate. So, this could mean that Gregor will "slip his bonds" by breaking the hold that Qyburn & Cersei have over him and going rogue (not rogue, per se, since he's being controlled by Bloodraven, but rogue in the eyes of Qyburn & Cersei).
Hrym
-Hrym is the captain of the ship Naglfar, which sets sail from the lands of the east to ferry hordes of giants into Asgard during the battle of Ragnarök. There isn't much to him other than that, but he's represented by Victarion Greyjoy, who has taken the Iron Fleet east to pick up Danaerys Targaryen and her dragons.
2
Posted on 6/26/13 at 10:13 am to OaklandFire
Part 7:
From LINK
The Kraken
-The Kraken is a massive cuttlefish from Norse mythology that is foretold to surface during the events of Ragnarök. Though it does not figure prominently into the story, and was likely a later invention, much the same as Garmr, it is said to appear out of nowhere and pull ships into the sea off the coasts of Midgard & Asgard. And, it was said to be so large in size that the sailors who supposedly came across it often mistook it for an island. Obviously, House Greyjoy represents the kraken in ASOIAF. It is the sigil of their house, and they are raiders who live on an island off the coast of Westeros. Plus, they are infamous for their stealth tactics, having burned the Lannister fleet at Lannisport during the Greyjoy Rebellion. What's more is, unlike the other peoples of Westeros, they sail Viking longships rather than galleys and carracks, like the Lannister, Baratheon & Tyrell fleets. So, their "resurfacing", after Euron takes the Seastone Chair and invades the Reach, is a sign that Ragnarök has begun.
The Spider
-The Norse believed women called Norns wove the fates of gods & men under the World Tree Yggdrasil. Each of their threads represented a person's life, and the patterns they wove represented the relationships people had with one another. In addition to weaving fate, the Norns were also responsible for watering Yggdrasil, so it wouldn't die. Because of this mythology, the Norse held spiders to be holy -- nature's weavers. It was believed they held the power to link the past to the future. In ASOIAF, the character Varys, who is called "the Spider", is a weaver of the fates of men, working behind the scenes to connect the past to the future (i.e. to install Aegon Targaryen upon the Iron Throne). And, even though he's not female, as the Norns always are, he was castrated in his youth. And, it's possible he "waters the World Tree" by warring against black/blood magic (which is a tool Loki will use to rot the World Tree). But then again, not all Norns were good. People who suffered calamity and misfortune were said to be under the thrall of bad, or evil Norns. And, when one considers the wild goose chase Varys sent Danaerys on (i.e. marrying her off to a brutal nomadic warlord, and subsequently commissioning Jorah Mormont to assassinate her), he may not be such a good Norn. However, if Dany represents the World Serpent, Varys may have been trying to preserve the World Tree by casting her into the Dothraki Sea (much the same as Odin casts Jormungandr into the sea).
The Fool
-Now, this may seem cruel (because it is), but the ancient and medieval Norse used to force the mentally ill and the mentally handicapped to act as court jesters. They usually weren't overly abusive to these "fools", but they did find their humiliation amusing, and would force them to "perform" (i.e. to make fools of themselves) at feasts and festivals, and the like. We see this same practice in ASOIAF, as the court jesters of most of the major houses are either mentally ill or handicapped in some way (i.e. Moon Boy, Butterbumps, Patchface Jinglebell, etc.). The exception we see is in Dontos Hollard, who was a disgraced knight-cum-fool in King's Landing. But that fits the culture as well. Because, alcoholics and disgraced members of society were often employed as court jesters as punishment.
In any case, I've only just touched upon the surface of it. But I think this is enough info for my first post. Stay tuned for further details. Granted, I may be completely wrong about all of this, or certain conclusions that I've drawn from it, or what have you. So, take it for what it's worth. And don't let it discourage you from your own theories about the books/show. Your guess is as good as mine.
Fun Fact: It wasn't Tyr[ion] or Walder Frey[r] who clued me in to this theory. It was Hodor. In the story of the death of Baldr, Loki tricks Baldr's blind & dim-witted brother, Hodr (also spelled Hodur), who is noted for his strength, into killing Baldr. The name piqued my interest, and the somewhat similar description really got me curious -- dim-witted Hodor & blind Hodur, and the two are both associated with a shapeshifter -- Loki (i.e. Bloodraven). But it was initially nothing more than the name itself that put me on this trail and got me thinking.
I should also add that an anonymous commenter pointed out that the name Eddard Stark could be an allusion to the Prose Edda (i.e. our main source for Ragnarök mythology -- which is most definitely a grim, or a "stark" Edda). Similarly, commenter Southron brought it to my attention that the names for the books in the series are kennings (i.e. metaphors in Old Norse poetry -- i.e. A Game of Thrones = Power Struggle. A Feast for Crows = Armistice, etc.). I think both are right on the money, and pretty clever at that. Nice work.
FYI: I've posted a number of my theories on the message boards at Westeros.org under the screen name "BrosBeforeSnows", and on WinterIsComing.net under the screen name "Varamyr Fourskins", if anyone cares to look them up. I haven't posted on Westeros in a while, but I still drop by WiC on a fairly regular basis. However, I did post what essentially amounts to the building blocks, or the blueprints for this theory over at Westeros in a thread titled "Jaime & Bran" (there was another one as well, but I can't remember what it was called -- maybe, "A Guide to Norse Mythology" or "The Ragnarok Connection", or something like that). I'd identified a few of the characters and their significance back then, but it wasn't nearly so comprehensive as this. But, you can see the evolution of it, if you want to read more about it. I'd also recommend the "Heresy" thread. They've gone in a different direction than I have, but "Black Crow" first posted it around the same time I posted "Jaime & Bran", not long after A Dance with Dragons was released, and there's a lot of good stuff in there (I mentioned in the comment section below that it wasn't until after ADwD came out that we could begin to piece this together, since the identity and motives of the 3-Eyed Crow hadn't been revealed yet).
From LINK
The Kraken
-The Kraken is a massive cuttlefish from Norse mythology that is foretold to surface during the events of Ragnarök. Though it does not figure prominently into the story, and was likely a later invention, much the same as Garmr, it is said to appear out of nowhere and pull ships into the sea off the coasts of Midgard & Asgard. And, it was said to be so large in size that the sailors who supposedly came across it often mistook it for an island. Obviously, House Greyjoy represents the kraken in ASOIAF. It is the sigil of their house, and they are raiders who live on an island off the coast of Westeros. Plus, they are infamous for their stealth tactics, having burned the Lannister fleet at Lannisport during the Greyjoy Rebellion. What's more is, unlike the other peoples of Westeros, they sail Viking longships rather than galleys and carracks, like the Lannister, Baratheon & Tyrell fleets. So, their "resurfacing", after Euron takes the Seastone Chair and invades the Reach, is a sign that Ragnarök has begun.
The Spider
-The Norse believed women called Norns wove the fates of gods & men under the World Tree Yggdrasil. Each of their threads represented a person's life, and the patterns they wove represented the relationships people had with one another. In addition to weaving fate, the Norns were also responsible for watering Yggdrasil, so it wouldn't die. Because of this mythology, the Norse held spiders to be holy -- nature's weavers. It was believed they held the power to link the past to the future. In ASOIAF, the character Varys, who is called "the Spider", is a weaver of the fates of men, working behind the scenes to connect the past to the future (i.e. to install Aegon Targaryen upon the Iron Throne). And, even though he's not female, as the Norns always are, he was castrated in his youth. And, it's possible he "waters the World Tree" by warring against black/blood magic (which is a tool Loki will use to rot the World Tree). But then again, not all Norns were good. People who suffered calamity and misfortune were said to be under the thrall of bad, or evil Norns. And, when one considers the wild goose chase Varys sent Danaerys on (i.e. marrying her off to a brutal nomadic warlord, and subsequently commissioning Jorah Mormont to assassinate her), he may not be such a good Norn. However, if Dany represents the World Serpent, Varys may have been trying to preserve the World Tree by casting her into the Dothraki Sea (much the same as Odin casts Jormungandr into the sea).
The Fool
-Now, this may seem cruel (because it is), but the ancient and medieval Norse used to force the mentally ill and the mentally handicapped to act as court jesters. They usually weren't overly abusive to these "fools", but they did find their humiliation amusing, and would force them to "perform" (i.e. to make fools of themselves) at feasts and festivals, and the like. We see this same practice in ASOIAF, as the court jesters of most of the major houses are either mentally ill or handicapped in some way (i.e. Moon Boy, Butterbumps, Patchface Jinglebell, etc.). The exception we see is in Dontos Hollard, who was a disgraced knight-cum-fool in King's Landing. But that fits the culture as well. Because, alcoholics and disgraced members of society were often employed as court jesters as punishment.
In any case, I've only just touched upon the surface of it. But I think this is enough info for my first post. Stay tuned for further details. Granted, I may be completely wrong about all of this, or certain conclusions that I've drawn from it, or what have you. So, take it for what it's worth. And don't let it discourage you from your own theories about the books/show. Your guess is as good as mine.
Fun Fact: It wasn't Tyr[ion] or Walder Frey[r] who clued me in to this theory. It was Hodor. In the story of the death of Baldr, Loki tricks Baldr's blind & dim-witted brother, Hodr (also spelled Hodur), who is noted for his strength, into killing Baldr. The name piqued my interest, and the somewhat similar description really got me curious -- dim-witted Hodor & blind Hodur, and the two are both associated with a shapeshifter -- Loki (i.e. Bloodraven). But it was initially nothing more than the name itself that put me on this trail and got me thinking.
I should also add that an anonymous commenter pointed out that the name Eddard Stark could be an allusion to the Prose Edda (i.e. our main source for Ragnarök mythology -- which is most definitely a grim, or a "stark" Edda). Similarly, commenter Southron brought it to my attention that the names for the books in the series are kennings (i.e. metaphors in Old Norse poetry -- i.e. A Game of Thrones = Power Struggle. A Feast for Crows = Armistice, etc.). I think both are right on the money, and pretty clever at that. Nice work.
FYI: I've posted a number of my theories on the message boards at Westeros.org under the screen name "BrosBeforeSnows", and on WinterIsComing.net under the screen name "Varamyr Fourskins", if anyone cares to look them up. I haven't posted on Westeros in a while, but I still drop by WiC on a fairly regular basis. However, I did post what essentially amounts to the building blocks, or the blueprints for this theory over at Westeros in a thread titled "Jaime & Bran" (there was another one as well, but I can't remember what it was called -- maybe, "A Guide to Norse Mythology" or "The Ragnarok Connection", or something like that). I'd identified a few of the characters and their significance back then, but it wasn't nearly so comprehensive as this. But, you can see the evolution of it, if you want to read more about it. I'd also recommend the "Heresy" thread. They've gone in a different direction than I have, but "Black Crow" first posted it around the same time I posted "Jaime & Bran", not long after A Dance with Dragons was released, and there's a lot of good stuff in there (I mentioned in the comment section below that it wasn't until after ADwD came out that we could begin to piece this together, since the identity and motives of the 3-Eyed Crow hadn't been revealed yet).
Posted on 6/26/13 at 11:24 am to OaklandFire
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