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Posted on 4/24/12 at 8:03 am to Bduhon55
quote:
I hope being sent to Gwinett will slap some sense into him and revive his career as a Brave...Bring on Huddy! Go Braves!
Nice how it sets up that they were both scheduled to pitch on Sunday.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 8:09 am to USAF Hart
quote:
re: The ATL Thread (Posted on 4/23/12 at 10:35 p.m. to SwampDonks)
Alright....Can JJ be sent down to the minors, or has he been in the majors too long?
Glad that the organization was reading my post....
Posted on 4/24/12 at 8:23 am to USAF Hart
WOW! What a crazy thing to wake up to today! I knew something was up when I saw the ATL Thread at the top at 8 am with almost 20 pages.
It is definitely the right move. Maybe he will go down, get everything figured out, and either come back to help us win the division or provide value in a trade.
It is definitely the right move. Maybe he will go down, get everything figured out, and either come back to help us win the division or provide value in a trade.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 8:29 am to RollDatRoll
I think his trade value is at about the same level as Kawakami at this point. You don't go from a potential All-star starter down to being demoted to AAA and have some crazy trade value. I'm thinking we could get a career minor leaguer out of JJ at this point. What is hurting him is his style of pitching. He likes to pitch to contact to get outs, but he hangs 2 seamers and sliders up in the zone way too much.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 8:32 am to USAF Hart
Yeah, I'm not saying he has any trade value now. But what if he goes gown to the minors and fixes his issues and starts pitching well again. He could get the call back up, take care of business in the majors for a little while, and then his value would be much higher than it is now.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 8:32 am to SwampDonks
quote:
Depends on his mental breakup.
He is either going to take this as a positive and work really hard to improve himself and be excited about the opportunity to get back up or he will take it as a negative and end up worst off than he already is. Don't think there is much of a medium.
Just guessing, but I think you see JJ coming back sooner rather than later, and pitching well.
I've always been of the impression that, mentally, Jurrjens is more the delicate flower than the bulldog.
I hope I'm wrong.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 8:34 am to USAF Hart
quote:
What is hurting him is his style of pitching. He likes to pitch to contact to get outs, but he hangs 2 seamers and sliders up in the zone way too much.
Did he have that same style of pitching at the start of last season when he was owning hitters?
I personally think he's hurt or just not fully recovered.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 8:41 am to Rohan2Reed
I'm not really sure what happened between the beginning of last season and now. Perhaps his injury really is not fully recovered, or he has some undiagnosed injury somewhere. In the beginning of last season he was hitting his spots, keeping the ball down low, and now all of a sudden all of his mistake pitches are letter high and hitters are making him pay.
Maybe he needs a different delivery. Maybe a longer follow through to ensure that his release point is lower than it has been.
Maybe he needs a different delivery. Maybe a longer follow through to ensure that his release point is lower than it has been.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 9:20 am to USAF Hart
Leaving pitches up... could definitely still be a knee problem.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 9:38 am to Rohan2Reed
Reds are calling up JJ Hoover
Posted on 4/24/12 at 9:39 am to Rohan2Reed
quote:
Did he have that same style of pitching at the start of last season when he was owning hitters?
Yes. Advanced stats pointed to a lot of it being luck. Whether or not that is true is another story. Maddux and Glavine had really low BABIP numbers because most people struggled to do better than a weak ground out or a popup against them. I think it was a mix of luck and greatly improved command. He was hitting his spots on every single pitch. It's tough to get solid contact against a guy who is doing that.
quote:
I personally think he's hurt or just not fully recovered.
Well, his fastball is still 2-3 MPH slower than it usually is. He's sitting at 87-88 right now and occasionally touching 90. His knee could definitely still be bothering him. I think a lot of it is between his ears though.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 10:01 am to FredSecunda
quote:
He was our best pitcher and the second best pitcher in BASEBALL at the All-Star break last year and we were in the middle of the pennant race.
It was an aberration. He was majorly lucky in both of his best seasons. His other season was below average, at best.
As for the pennant race, it doesn't seem keeping him around helped much. Hell, plenty of bums could have given us what he did over that 2nd half. Call it hindsight all you like, but I called it happening for most of the 1st half.
IMO, his value peaked at the break, if you are smart, you capitalize on the fact that you have an overvalued asset and teams willing to pay a ridiculous price for a guy that will never meet that value.
Is it risky? Meh. Minor is toiling in AAA, throwing 100 innings off his arm when he was ready to be as competent as JJ was. Remember this is before all the other injuries forced Minor to be in the rotation anyhow.
I'd investigate a trade where we get back a prospect AND a back of the rotation starter to fill the need left by him leaving. Two birds, one stone.
quote:
This was a tough call by Wren and Fredi but it was the right call.
This is a growing trend in the Wren era: mis-evaluation of our assets. We stood by Jordan Schafer for 3 years, claiming him to be the CF of the future. Yeah, not so much.
Now we stand by Jurrjens, touting his value. And we missed the boat on trying to move him. As Capitol Avenue Club tweeted, if we played it right, we could have likely dealt him for two top 100 prospects and now we are likely to get a couple of C prospects at best.
And now we're doing it all over again, standing by a quadruple A shortstop who is a miserable defender with limited upside.
Prado could be lumped into this, but that's yet to be decided, as he's not a terrible player and we haven't doled out big bucks to keep him around.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 10:10 am to OBUDan
quote:
As for the pennant race, it doesn't seem keeping him around helped much. Hell, plenty of bums could have given us what he did over that 2nd half. Call it hindsight all you like, but I called it happening for most of the 1st half.
Maybe you should be a GM, because I guarantee you not a single Major League General Manager would have traded JJ at the AS Break last year if in the Braves situation. Not one.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 10:15 am to SwampDonks
quote:
Maybe you should be a GM, because I guarantee you not a single Major League General Manager would have traded JJ at the AS Break last year if in the Braves situation. Not one.
That's all well and good. It doesn't mean all of them wouldn't have been wrong, though.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 10:24 am to OBUDan
Well yeah, but I wouldn't hate Frank for not pulling the trigger at the point.
It just so happened that Jair got hurt, which hurt his trade value more than his 2nd half numbers, even though they are intertwined. Tough luck. He tried, couldn't find anything.
If Jair throws out a 4.50 ERA in the 2nd half of last year but remained healthy, we would have made out pretty good this offseason.
It just so happened that Jair got hurt, which hurt his trade value more than his 2nd half numbers, even though they are intertwined. Tough luck. He tried, couldn't find anything.
If Jair throws out a 4.50 ERA in the 2nd half of last year but remained healthy, we would have made out pretty good this offseason.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 10:36 am to SwampDonks
I can't believe I am saying this, but I have to side with Dan on this one. It was clear that he was pitching well over his head first half of last season. It would have been smart to deal him when his value was peaked.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 10:53 am to RollDatRoll
Well no shite he had a 1.87 ERA, but it's not like he hadn't ever pitched well before.
You CAN'T trade a guy who has a 1.87 ERA at mid season when you are in the middle of a division race. You just can't, whether he was pitching over his head or not.
he had a 1.87 ERA, but it's not like he hadn't ever pitched well before. You CAN'T trade a guy who has a 1.87 ERA at mid season when you are in the middle of a division race. You just can't, whether he was pitching over his head or not.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 11:37 am to SwampDonks
quote:
You just can't, whether he was pitching over his head or not.
That makes no sense.
So if Matt Diaz comes out like a whirlwind of fire and hits .450 until the break and smacks 30 homeruns, and someone wants to give you top prospects for him, you absolutely cannot trade him just cause he's obviously performing well over his talent level?
That's PRECISELY when you trade people and how you maximize your assets. It's good business, IMO.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 11:40 am to OBUDan
quote:
So if Matt Diaz comes out like a whirlwind of fire and hits .450 until the break and smacks 30 homeruns, and someone wants to give you top prospects for him, you absolutely cannot trade him just cause he's obviously performing well over his talent level?
There's a big difference between Diaz and Jurrjens who is a pitcher that has had success before.
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