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Apparently some posters think LSU >= Harvard, academically

Posted on 8/25/09 at 11:14 pm
Posted by bnozzles
Member since Jul 2009
987 posts
Posted on 8/25/09 at 11:14 pm
Some comments from the Andrew Hatch NYT article thread ( LINK)...

quote:

LSU has the highest quality students in the country

-TulaneTigerFan



quote:

The education you get at LSU is no worse than one from Harvard

-parnold



Jesus H.
This post was edited on 8/25/09 at 11:16 pm
Posted by Volvagia
Fort Worth
Member since Mar 2006
52901 posts
Posted on 8/25/09 at 11:18 pm to
FWIW, undergrad, it is pretty much true.

Quality of education is often more about the effort you put into it than the school itself.

Bit of an tangent, but this is a letter that made the Advocate today from a friend of mine:
quote:


As a recent graduate of LSU, I am happy to see that LSU remains in the top tier of the latest U.S. News and World Report college and university rankings.

When we finally reached the top tier last year, it was a major breakthrough and suggested that LSU was headed in the right direction. However, it is very important to realize that simply being in the top tier of the U.S. News rankings is hardly enough.

We are still ranked 128th (which is effectively identical to last year’s ranking, since there is a six-way tie for that spot), and this puts LSU right in the middle of all of the schools that U.S. News ranks.

LSU can do much better than this, and it would be a shame to see LSU remain stagnant after having come so far. Maintaining LSU’s forward progress will obviously require increased support from the state. Unfortunately, it appears that the opposite will be true in the near future.

There are, however, many ways that the greater LSU community can support the school. For example, LSU’s growth and development is currently limited by the fact that the university endowment is very small. The Forever LSU campaign has been moderately successful in building the endowment, but we still are well below where we need to be.

Thus, donations by alumni, no matter the size, will always help. Furthermore, the LSU community includes many large corporations whose futures will be impacted by the progress that LSU makes in the coming years. Many of these businesses have already made contributions to the university, but they are far from enough.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, LSU must continue to improve upon the quality of the education that it provides.

I cherish the education I received at LSU, but there is always room to improve. This means that LSU will need to tighten its standards (not its admissions standards, but its educational accountability standards). In the past few years, LSU has hired and retained some of the best and brightest faculty in the country, so there is absolutely no reason why Harvard, UPenn, Yale, or Stanford should be graduating better-prepared students than LSU. In reality, many of LSU’s graduates are on par with the best graduates of the top schools in the country, so it is clear that the potential for greatness is there.

Even though LSU is facing tough times, LSU can continue to improve by capitalizing on the resources that we already have. Reaching and maintaining top-tier status is an important milestone in LSU’s development, but we should now set our sights even higher.

Geaux, Tigers!

Nabil Thalji
medical student
Philadelphia, Penn.


And it should be noted that with his "inferior" LSU education he was helping explain shite to Harvard students after their first class in med school.

It is all an elitist perception...nothing more.
This post was edited on 8/25/09 at 11:24 pm
Posted by Volvagia
Fort Worth
Member since Mar 2006
52901 posts
Posted on 8/25/09 at 11:26 pm to
BTW, in case you didn't hear...shuttle launch was postponed further.

Some valve in the main engines was sticky in the step down protocol.
Posted by bnozzles
Member since Jul 2009
987 posts
Posted on 8/25/09 at 11:27 pm to
Mmmmk.
Posted by Volvagia
Fort Worth
Member since Mar 2006
52901 posts
Posted on 8/25/09 at 11:27 pm to
Posted by Charles Bronson
WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS
Member since Nov 2007
11677 posts
Posted on 8/25/09 at 11:31 pm to
quote:

FWIW, undergrad, it is pretty much true.

Nah.
quote:

Quality of education is often more about the effort you put into it than the school itself.
Of course.
quote:

And it should be noted that with his "inferior" LSU education he was helping explain shite to Harvard students after their first class in med school.

It is all an elitist perception...nothing more.

Of course LSU will have some excellent students, but by and large the two don't compare.

Places like Harvard are full of absolutely, unmistakably brilliant folks.
Posted by CalTiger
California
Member since Jan 2004
3997 posts
Posted on 8/25/09 at 11:32 pm to
I am not going to even raise the issue of LSU and Harvard being on the same level in any rating but -
it is too simplistic to say that the differences between a Harvard and LSU education are merely because of the students.

As pointed in the post above - bigger endowments provide better facilities and attract better professors who demand higher pay.

The average student at Harvard definitely will be academically better than even the higher than average LSU student but that doesn't mean or imply that the coursework that they took is fluff. Unless if it were a proven and known fact that LSU tends to give out higher grades for lesser work.

The main reason many schools including LSU reject credits and demand that the students retake courses is because of pre-requisites being tailored differently in each school and more importantly the more classes a student enrolls in the more that particular department gets from the school fund.

Language and English departments (there are lots of exceptions but most of them) are notorious for not allowing many credit transfers because they are underfunded for the most part and the more students who take classes the more they can justify from the main share.
Posted by Keys Open Doors
In hiding with Tupac & XXXTentacion
Member since Dec 2008
32774 posts
Posted on 8/25/09 at 11:33 pm to
SFP's comment in that thread is pretty much dead on.

FWIW, I am pretty sure Tulane Tiger Fan was being extremely sarcastic.
Posted by CamdenTiger
Member since Aug 2009
65134 posts
Posted on 8/25/09 at 11:35 pm to
Me got sum edjercation,and I ert fine.
Posted by Volvagia
Fort Worth
Member since Mar 2006
52901 posts
Posted on 8/25/09 at 11:35 pm to
quote:


The average student at Harvard definitely will be academically better than even the higher than average LSU student but that doesn't mean or imply that the coursework that they took is fluff. Unless if it were a proven and known fact that LSU tends to give out higher grades for lesser work.


Bingo.

Just because folks are smarter at one school doesn't inherently mean that they received a better education.
Posted by Charles Bronson
WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS
Member since Nov 2007
11677 posts
Posted on 8/25/09 at 11:39 pm to
I'm actually surprised he didn't get at least a little credit.

I know for a fact that UPenn and Princeton have accepted credits from a public university in LA.
Posted by bnozzles
Member since Jul 2009
987 posts
Posted on 8/25/09 at 11:41 pm to
quote:

Just because folks are smarter at one school doesn't inherently mean that they received a better education.


Why doesn't it? Even if we pretended that all is equal across the vast universe of undergrad professors, materials, labs, libraries, etc. in this country, you're forgetting that peer learning is a very large component of education.
This post was edited on 8/25/09 at 11:43 pm
Posted by Keys Open Doors
In hiding with Tupac & XXXTentacion
Member since Dec 2008
32774 posts
Posted on 8/25/09 at 11:42 pm to
I'll put it out there. One of my good friends went to Duke for undergrad and majored in Econ. He studied very hard and got about a 3.35 or 3.4. After a couple of years, he decided he wanted to go to medical school, so he started taking med school classes at LSU since it was cheaper. He got a 102 and a 98 in his first Physics and Chemistry classes and said he studied less than almost any class at Duke.
Posted by Volvagia
Fort Worth
Member since Mar 2006
52901 posts
Posted on 8/25/09 at 11:45 pm to
quote:

I'm actually surprised he didn't get at least a little credit.


+1

I can see them maybe having a couple of points of contention...maybe for critical major courses.

But they should at least taken general ed/electives.


quote:

Why doesn't it? Even if we pretended that all is equal in the vast universe of undergrad professors, materials, library, etc., you're forgetting that peer learning is a very large component of education.


No, I am not.

It is just that I never associated with stupid people in my studies. Maybe it was just me.
Posted by bnozzles
Member since Jul 2009
987 posts
Posted on 8/25/09 at 11:49 pm to
quote:

No, I am not.

It is just that I never associated with stupid people in my studies. Maybe it was just me.


Right, because the intelligence of students at universities is best measured in a "stupid vs. not stupid" dichotomy.

I'm sure the quality of the discussion for a randomly assigned group project in a class at LSU is just as valuable as one at Harvard, because students at both schools fall into the "not stupid" category.
This post was edited on 8/25/09 at 11:59 pm
Posted by Volvagia
Fort Worth
Member since Mar 2006
52901 posts
Posted on 8/25/09 at 11:50 pm to
quote:

I'll put it out there. One of my good friends went to Duke for undergrad and majored in Econ. He studied very hard and got about a 3.35 or 3.4. After a couple of years, he decided he wanted to go to medical school, so he started taking med school classes at LSU since it was cheaper. He got a 102 and a 98 in his first Physics and Chemistry classes and said he studied less than almost any class at Duke.


Didn't deny that different schools had higher standards. My point was referring to quality of education given. Harvard degree is ranked higher than an LSU degree, with good reason. But that does not mean a Harvard student is inherently better educated than an LSU student...just tested more rigorously.

I don't know what LSU's Chemistry classes are like because I took the Honors form of the class and was satisfied with it. Physics was for non-majors so I didn't care much either way.
Posted by CalTiger
California
Member since Jan 2004
3997 posts
Posted on 8/25/09 at 11:51 pm to
I agree - you can almost split learning into three equal parts

- your effort
- ability of teachers to teach you
- peer group (to help and to compete)

My points were made regarding accepting of credits by Harvard and not to point out the presumed obvious ( and maybe rightly so) superiority of a Ivy League education over an LSU one.
Posted by Volvagia
Fort Worth
Member since Mar 2006
52901 posts
Posted on 8/25/09 at 11:52 pm to
quote:

Right, because the intelligence of students at universities is best measured in a "stupid vs. not stupid" dichotomy.


The people I talk about could have applied to Harvard themselves and had a realistic shot of getting in if they didn't want to 1) spend so much fricking money, 2) go so far away from home.

Is that a little more precise?

Posted by Keys Open Doors
In hiding with Tupac & XXXTentacion
Member since Dec 2008
32774 posts
Posted on 8/25/09 at 11:52 pm to
quote:

But that does not mean a Harvard student is inherently better educated than an LSU student...just tested more rigorously.


How are those not mutually exclusive?
Posted by Volvagia
Fort Worth
Member since Mar 2006
52901 posts
Posted on 8/25/09 at 11:56 pm to
Just because one may test harder doesn't mean the material covered is at an inferior level.

That is how. Who is to say that if you didn't switch the student who made a 100 at one and a 90 at the other wouldn't have made the same scores if they had taken the same test.

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