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MSTiger33
LSU Fan
New York City
Member since Oct 2007
16471 posts

Have we discussed Battle Ground yet? (Spoilers)
I was disappointed in Peace Talks from top to bottom. The story plodded along, Marsters’ narration was way off and the editing was done by someone who must of had a car walking across his computer keyboard at times.

That being said Battle Ground was amazing. Marsters did a great job and the editing was superb.

I wouldn’t mind a spoilerish conversation. Let me know and I will edit the title
This post was edited on 10/14 at 12:54 pm


auyushu
Auburn Fan
Surprise, AZ
Member since Jan 2011
7382 posts

re: Have we discussed Battle Ground yet? (Spoilers)
Yeah, I'd say change it to a spoilers topic.

I'd agree with you all around, I was extremely disappointed with Peace Talks, but Battle Ground was fantastic, one of the best books in the series.


MSTiger33
LSU Fan
New York City
Member since Oct 2007
16471 posts

re: Have we discussed Battle Ground yet? (Spoilers)
Switched it


auyushu
Auburn Fan
Surprise, AZ
Member since Jan 2011
7382 posts

re: Have we discussed Battle Ground yet? (Spoilers)
Those battle scenes were freaking amazing, Harry leading the charge by using his Winter leadership powers was interesting.

A couple things played out as expected with Justine being infected and responsible for Thomas doing what he did, and Murphy dying and becoming a Valkyrie. Though Randolph being the one that killed her was surprising, screw that scumbag.

Marcone taking a coin was a pretty big surprise at the end to me, I was figuring he would have some sort of artifact to allow him to recover from death, but didn't expect him to have turn into Thorned Namshiel. That team up with him and Harry was great, and it turns Marcone into one of the most dangerous people in the Dresdenverse.

The White Council being such gigantic douchebags making Michael start throwing F bombs was pretty good too.

Be interesting to see how the Harry and Lara forced team up winds up working.


MSTiger33
LSU Fan
New York City
Member since Oct 2007
16471 posts

re: Have we discussed Battle Ground yet? (Spoilers)
My only complaint is that the human military response was a little exaggerated. I think you would have boots on the ground and planes in the air within an hour if some big bronze chick is wreck a major city with a red beam


auyushu
Auburn Fan
Surprise, AZ
Member since Jan 2011
7382 posts

re: Have we discussed Battle Ground yet? (Spoilers)
I think all of Battleground went down in just a few hours though, and you have to factor in that the initial attack was basically a huge magic surge that knocked out all communication and power. That would have caused a big delay in reaction time by itself.

He might have undersold the reaction time of the military by a little bit, but I don't think it was too bad given the circumstances.


Green Chili Tiger
LSU Fan
Lurking the Tin Foil Hat Board
Member since Jul 2009
43370 posts

re: Have we discussed Battle Ground yet? (Spoilers)
Battle Ground was fantastic and it retroactively elevated Peace Talks. After reading both, they should have just released 1 900 plus page book instead of chopping it in two.


Midget Death Squad
Notre Dame Fan
Meme Magic
Member since Oct 2008
17610 posts

re: Have we discussed Battle Ground yet? (Spoilers)
quote:

they should have just released 1 900 plus page book instead of chopping it in two.



Butcher says this was done to prevent selling one book at $50. I'm not sure how that is possible though, because we see 1000+ page books releases often for normal prices. This sounds like a cheap money grab by TOR to me with this terrible spin on it.

I haven't read this yet. I am currently reading Asimov's
"The End of Eternity," and I am in que for BG in my Libby app. Basically whichever pops first will be which I use. Since I don't have much time for reading in life right now, I think it will be the audiobook...


auyushu
Auburn Fan
Surprise, AZ
Member since Jan 2011
7382 posts

re: Have we discussed Battle Ground yet? (Spoilers)
quote:

This sounds like a cheap money grab by TOR to me with this terrible spin on it.



Pretty much, Brandon Sanderson still producing 1000 page books on the regular shows how much BS that is. Rhythm of War is going to be over 1200 pages when it comes out in November, and it's 28 bucks on Amazon.


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MSTiger33
LSU Fan
New York City
Member since Oct 2007
16471 posts

re: Have we discussed Battle Ground yet? (Spoilers)
I was surprised that Butcher didn’t write a fight scene for Lea.


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Midget Death Squad
Notre Dame Fan
Meme Magic
Member since Oct 2008
17610 posts

re: Have we discussed Battle Ground yet? (Spoilers)
I finally finished it today, and I am very impressed with both books overall. Unlike some of you on here, I didn't have a problem with Peace Talks, because I knew it was part 1 of 2. I let it play out to form my final thoughts, which I will give now based on both books being read as one.


- My biggest issue is the handling of McCoy. Butcher dropped the ball on this one. He has a plan for him that he forced into the story, because he comes off as incredibly bipolar. Everything he has done in his life for Harry was to protect him, and he has been established as family first. He had put himself at risk with the WC to do so. Now we have him trying to kill Harry in a major fight, and we leave off with him being in charge of killing Harry as The Blackstaff? This was all a complete 180 from everything that has been established about him, and it damn near ruins this book for me. This is terribly sloppy work by Butcher.


- I am shocked that Butcher had the courage to kill off Murphy. As that scene was playing out I was thinking this is not going to happen. No way he removes the second most important character in his series, but he did. I thought the writing of the scene was a bit awkward; however, he makes up for it at the end. That conversation with Guard was so well written, and it was full of genuine emotion. It probably is my favorite scene of the book.

quote:

Murphy dying and becoming a Valkyrie


She didn't become a Valkyrie. She was rewarded with a Valkyrie's death and afterlife out of honor for her heroism in life and her dying a warrior's death.


quote:

Those battle scenes were freaking amazing


Butcher really hit a homerun here. This was basically 30 chapters of fighting, and it was done masterfully. I thought it would become exhausting after a while, but it never did. He managed this with perfection.


- Ramirez, unlike McCoy, was handled deftly as well. He has always been completely loyal to the WC, and you can feel his internal conflict when that loyalty comes at odds with his friendship to Harry. I loved how this played out, and I am curious what will eventually come of this.


- River Shoulders and Goodman Gray are my two favorite secondary characters. I want to see them in their own stories. GIVE ME MOAR!

- Marcone being a Knight of Denarius caught me completely off guard. Holy shite what a reveal! While Nemesis has been the big baddie that has been built up for nearly this entire series now, I have a feeling that Marcone will be the final main baddy that Harry battles to finish off this entire series. I'm starting to believe Marcone is the leader of the Black Council, and we will see that play out after the Nemesis story is completed.

- One very interesting and possibly important character development I noticed with this. Anyone else notice a changing of Mab throughout these books? At the end you start seeing some sense of humanity showing with her. Unlike the McCoy situation in which Butcher abandoned the canon of his character (unless he's inflicted with Nemesis, which I will forgive all of this if so), I get the impression that he is showing with Mab that faries actions by law of nature are not absolute.

Here's how I see it. It's been established that each fairy is a particular way by law of what they are. Winter Queen is manipulative and sinister by nature of being the Winter Queen. It doesn't matter that she was mortal prior to that title; the mantle eventually dominates and eliminates that mortal side.

Mab, however, is showing signs of caring and empathy by the end of this book. They are minimal and relatively subtle, but they are there. Pay attention to what Harry tells Molly about how her being raised by the Carpenters has allowed her to be a great Winter Lady and not give into the mantle. I think this is the clue to show that it is in fact NOT absolute as they believe it to be. Harry has been able to resist the mantle, and Molly has as well.

Now we are seeing Mab show signs of her humanity again, and it is all in direct response to Harry's actions. I get the impression that Butcher is setting up to show that Harry's heroism and honor are so inspiring that it can break the hold of the mantles and bring forth the human nature of others. If this is indeed what's happening, I think it's a brilliant and endearing "moral to the story."




Ok, my wall of text is over...
This post was edited on 11/16 at 2:46 pm


auyushu
Auburn Fan
Surprise, AZ
Member since Jan 2011
7382 posts

re: Have we discussed Battle Ground yet? (Spoilers)
quote:

She didn't become a Valkyrie. She was rewarded with a Valkyrie's


Pretty sure she straight up became a Einherjar, she just can't come back as one until all memories of her are faded from those who knew her. So basically she can't return as a Valkyrie until everyone who knew her or loved her has passed away or forgotten about her.

Not sure how that would work with Molly, but I'm sure Butcher will find some loophole to bring her back before the end of the series anyway.

I agree with you about McCoy, he was forcing a personality change to make him fit the situation, and it was bizarre and didn't really fit with the character.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Marcone wind up as the ultimate baddie in the end either.

Interesting theory about Mab, could easily see it happening somewhat.
This post was edited on 11/16 at 4:12 pm


Midget Death Squad
Notre Dame Fan
Meme Magic
Member since Oct 2008
17610 posts

re: Have we discussed Battle Ground yet? (Spoilers)
Now that you mention it I do remember that part. I’m going to reread it tonight because you may be correct on this one. If so then yes I agree That we will see butcher finding a way to bring Murphy back.


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