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MSY North terminal question

Posted on 8/2/16 at 3:24 pm
Posted by Guess
Down The Road
Member since Jun 2009
3772 posts
Posted on 8/2/16 at 3:24 pm
Are they building it to small?

I know some people feel like it shouldn't have been built to begin with, but it's happening and it actually looks pretty good. My thing is if you are going to build it, build it right. I know MSY isn't a huge hub, but seems like the new terminal will be undersized from the beginning. It's going to have 2 concourses with 30 gates. Well ~33 gates are occupied thoughtout the year right now in the current terminal. Not the mention the airport has been steadily growing and will surpass 11 million passengers this year. Condor is starting sevice to FRA next summer, BA to London still seems like a possibility, and I'm pretty sure they are always trying to land other directs both domestically and internationally all the time.

I know the new terminal was designed with plans to add another 12 gate concourse, and if continued growth is a priority, seems like maybe they should just be doing that in the initial construction.
This post was edited on 8/2/16 at 3:30 pm
Posted by BlackenedOut
The Big Sleazy
Member since Feb 2011
5805 posts
Posted on 8/2/16 at 3:30 pm to
The metric you use "33 gates are occupied throughout the year", what does that mean?

The Condor flight is a weekly flight right? Seems easy enough to work that into some down time for a gate.
Posted by Golfer
Member since Nov 2005
75052 posts
Posted on 8/2/16 at 3:33 pm to
In short, no. Currently there are 33 gates, but separated among 3 individual concourses with their own security checkpoint. Merging the concourses with a single security checkpoint (or at least access between the two behind security) will allow for greater gate flexibility when needed.

Basically as long as there are flex gates and ample parking on the tarmac for overnights, it won't be an issue. Then the expansion can occur naturally.
Posted by Guess
Down The Road
Member since Jun 2009
3772 posts
Posted on 8/2/16 at 3:41 pm to
I just counted gates listed in Wiki. There were 33 listed as occupied with some of those gates pulling double duty with multiple carriers. Some of those flights are seasonal and I didn't include Condor that's why I used the "~" symbol. I have heard the number of 29 gates occupied at any given time, but that was a few months ago. Still it's going to be completely filled or even over filled the day it opens.

Eta: Condor will be bi-weekly.
This post was edited on 8/2/16 at 3:43 pm
Posted by CuseTiger
On the road
Member since Jul 2013
8206 posts
Posted on 8/2/16 at 3:42 pm to
I kind of agree with you that they should be building at least ~35 gates as 34 by my count are used on a daily basis. But if you think about it concourse A isnt' even in use currently nor some of the gates at the end of B. I think they are anticipating that with only 30 gates they can utilize some of the current gates in B/C that are barely used a little more. Stick allegiant, frontier, alaska at one gate and the problem is almost solved immediately. If they have to they could do some boarding on the tarmac for the ERJ and CRJ flights
Posted by Guess
Down The Road
Member since Jun 2009
3772 posts
Posted on 8/2/16 at 3:52 pm to
I thought all commercial flights were supposed to be moving to the new terminal, and the old one would be used for office space and general aviation. This was supposed to be a cost saving move, and if they have to staff 2 terminals for commercial it seems like that would defeat the purpose of the new terminal.
Posted by Golfer
Member since Nov 2005
75052 posts
Posted on 8/2/16 at 3:58 pm to
They are. What is occurring right now with 3 separate terminals are "wasted" gates during peak times.

Austin is a good example of what MSY will look like following the new build.
Posted by Y.A. Tittle
Member since Sep 2003
101436 posts
Posted on 8/2/16 at 4:03 pm to
Maybe I'm wrong, but I also thought the design was such that it could be expanded within its existing designed configuration much easier than currently, if ever the need so arose.
Posted by Golfer
Member since Nov 2005
75052 posts
Posted on 8/2/16 at 4:08 pm to
quote:

Maybe I'm wrong, but I also thought the design was such that it could be expanded within its existing designed configuration much easier than currently, if ever the need so arose.



Correct. There are significant limitations on design/efficiency in expanding the current MSY setup.
Posted by Reservoir dawg
Member since Oct 2013
14104 posts
Posted on 8/2/16 at 4:13 pm to
Does anyone have renderings of this project? Is this terminal replacing the current one?

35 gates would be ideal for MSY's future needs.
Posted by RedFoxx
New Orleans, LA
Member since Jan 2009
6005 posts
Posted on 8/2/16 at 4:24 pm to
quote:

Does anyone have renderings of this project? Is this terminal replacing the current one?


Posted by Golfer
Member since Nov 2005
75052 posts
Posted on 8/2/16 at 4:24 pm to
quote:

Does anyone have renderings of this project?




quote:

Is this terminal replacing the current one?


No, it's being built on the north side of the airport with a new entrance/exit via Loyola/Vets/I-10



Posted by Guess
Down The Road
Member since Jun 2009
3772 posts
Posted on 8/2/16 at 4:34 pm to
Yes, it's going to replace the current one. The old one will be used for office space and general aviation.



















LINK
Posted by Guess
Down The Road
Member since Jun 2009
3772 posts
Posted on 8/2/16 at 4:51 pm to
I just noticed the parking garage separating the terminal and hotel. It's not in the older drawings and I never paid attention to it until just now.
Posted by SM6
Georgia
Member since Jul 2008
8799 posts
Posted on 8/2/16 at 5:03 pm to
So this is a perfect example of an airport planning question. As Golfer mentioned earlier, the current layout has 33 gates, but split among three concourses limiting flexibility.

Assuming 30 gates in the new facility, you would want to understand what the demand on facilities would be on the average day of the peak month (typically your 90-95 percentile). In 2016, that was May 8th, with 150 scheduled departures. Assuming a fully capable common use facility (similar to AUS and the new terminal at RDU) where airlines share gates, you would have 30 gates to share among the carriers. The common industry metric is 8 turns per day, or flights occupying a gate. As a baseline the facility capacity would be 240 flights day.

In the near term this is likely an aggressive assumption as airlines will schedule based on their operational needs not the availability of gates. As gates become a constraint the airport will need to implement some kind of allocation process to prioritize existing (and new) service until capacity comes on line.

In the Europe and Asia, where this is a common practice, it is not unheard of to get 10 turns from a gate. This despite very peaky bank structures for connections.

A quick look at the 2015 FAA Terminal Area Forecast for MSY

LINK

A ratio of the peak to annual activity at MSY would imply that the airport would not hit 223 departures per day until 2040.

Lots of flexibility here, and while during the peak of the peak the airport might have to make some adjustments, the general rule of thumb is to plan to the 90-95 percentile and accept some level of service degradation on the 3-5 days when it truly blows past design.
Posted by CuseTiger
On the road
Member since Jul 2013
8206 posts
Posted on 8/2/16 at 5:09 pm to
quote:

Lots of flexibility here, and while during the peak of the peak the airport might have to make some adjustments, the general rule of thumb is to plan to the 90-95 percentile and accept some level of service degradation on the 3-5 days when it truly blows past design.

Those 3-5 days in DCA or ORD when a gate isn't available truly suck, that's where the tarmac delays of 3 hours usually come into effect. I think it's a completely different case for MSY, but we can hope they have a contingency plan in place (maybe a few shuttle buses for remote parking in case there's severe tstorms and planes can't depart the gates faster than planes are arriving).
Posted by BlackenedOut
The Big Sleazy
Member since Feb 2011
5805 posts
Posted on 8/2/16 at 7:58 pm to
Thanks for explaining. This is what I was getting at. Gates are like tables in a restaurant. Place may only have 30 tables but if they can turn them 5 times a day, its potentially more revenue than a place with 60 tables that only turns them twice a day.
This post was edited on 8/3/16 at 6:46 am
Posted by Teddy Ruxpin
Member since Oct 2006
39582 posts
Posted on 8/2/16 at 9:16 pm to
quote:

ts potentially more revenue than a place with 0 tables


Sounds pretty hip
Posted by Reservoir dawg
Member since Oct 2013
14104 posts
Posted on 8/3/16 at 8:41 pm to
Beautiful renderings. That'll be the nicest building in the region once completed.
Posted by wickowick
Head of Island
Member since Dec 2006
45810 posts
Posted on 8/4/16 at 9:52 am to
Found a construction timeline:


quote:

Jan. 4, 2016 -- Construction begins

April 4-7, 2016 -- Pile-driving begins

June 9, 2016 -- Terminal structural steel erection begins

Jan. 19, 2017 -- Terminal curtain wall construction begins

Feb. 9, 2017 -- Parking garage construction begins

May 3, 2017 -- Construction starts on exterior skin of terminal

March 2, 2018 -- Parking garage finishes

Oct. 1, 2018 -- Terminal opens for operation


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