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MSY North terminal question
Posted on 8/2/16 at 3:24 pm
Posted on 8/2/16 at 3:24 pm
Are they building it to small?
I know some people feel like it shouldn't have been built to begin with, but it's happening and it actually looks pretty good. My thing is if you are going to build it, build it right. I know MSY isn't a huge hub, but seems like the new terminal will be undersized from the beginning. It's going to have 2 concourses with 30 gates. Well ~33 gates are occupied thoughtout the year right now in the current terminal. Not the mention the airport has been steadily growing and will surpass 11 million passengers this year. Condor is starting sevice to FRA next summer, BA to London still seems like a possibility, and I'm pretty sure they are always trying to land other directs both domestically and internationally all the time.
I know the new terminal was designed with plans to add another 12 gate concourse, and if continued growth is a priority, seems like maybe they should just be doing that in the initial construction.
I know some people feel like it shouldn't have been built to begin with, but it's happening and it actually looks pretty good. My thing is if you are going to build it, build it right. I know MSY isn't a huge hub, but seems like the new terminal will be undersized from the beginning. It's going to have 2 concourses with 30 gates. Well ~33 gates are occupied thoughtout the year right now in the current terminal. Not the mention the airport has been steadily growing and will surpass 11 million passengers this year. Condor is starting sevice to FRA next summer, BA to London still seems like a possibility, and I'm pretty sure they are always trying to land other directs both domestically and internationally all the time.
I know the new terminal was designed with plans to add another 12 gate concourse, and if continued growth is a priority, seems like maybe they should just be doing that in the initial construction.
This post was edited on 8/2/16 at 3:30 pm
Posted on 8/2/16 at 3:30 pm to Guess
The metric you use "33 gates are occupied throughout the year", what does that mean?
The Condor flight is a weekly flight right? Seems easy enough to work that into some down time for a gate.
The Condor flight is a weekly flight right? Seems easy enough to work that into some down time for a gate.
Posted on 8/2/16 at 3:33 pm to Guess
In short, no. Currently there are 33 gates, but separated among 3 individual concourses with their own security checkpoint. Merging the concourses with a single security checkpoint (or at least access between the two behind security) will allow for greater gate flexibility when needed.
Basically as long as there are flex gates and ample parking on the tarmac for overnights, it won't be an issue. Then the expansion can occur naturally.
Basically as long as there are flex gates and ample parking on the tarmac for overnights, it won't be an issue. Then the expansion can occur naturally.
Posted on 8/2/16 at 3:41 pm to BlackenedOut
I just counted gates listed in Wiki. There were 33 listed as occupied with some of those gates pulling double duty with multiple carriers. Some of those flights are seasonal and I didn't include Condor that's why I used the "~" symbol. I have heard the number of 29 gates occupied at any given time, but that was a few months ago. Still it's going to be completely filled or even over filled the day it opens.
Eta: Condor will be bi-weekly.
Eta: Condor will be bi-weekly.
This post was edited on 8/2/16 at 3:43 pm
Posted on 8/2/16 at 3:42 pm to Guess
I kind of agree with you that they should be building at least ~35 gates as 34 by my count are used on a daily basis. But if you think about it concourse A isnt' even in use currently nor some of the gates at the end of B. I think they are anticipating that with only 30 gates they can utilize some of the current gates in B/C that are barely used a little more. Stick allegiant, frontier, alaska at one gate and the problem is almost solved immediately. If they have to they could do some boarding on the tarmac for the ERJ and CRJ flights
Posted on 8/2/16 at 3:52 pm to CuseTiger
I thought all commercial flights were supposed to be moving to the new terminal, and the old one would be used for office space and general aviation. This was supposed to be a cost saving move, and if they have to staff 2 terminals for commercial it seems like that would defeat the purpose of the new terminal.
Posted on 8/2/16 at 3:58 pm to Guess
They are. What is occurring right now with 3 separate terminals are "wasted" gates during peak times.
Austin is a good example of what MSY will look like following the new build.
Austin is a good example of what MSY will look like following the new build.
Posted on 8/2/16 at 4:03 pm to Golfer
Maybe I'm wrong, but I also thought the design was such that it could be expanded within its existing designed configuration much easier than currently, if ever the need so arose.
Posted on 8/2/16 at 4:08 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
Maybe I'm wrong, but I also thought the design was such that it could be expanded within its existing designed configuration much easier than currently, if ever the need so arose.
Correct. There are significant limitations on design/efficiency in expanding the current MSY setup.
Posted on 8/2/16 at 4:13 pm to Guess
Does anyone have renderings of this project? Is this terminal replacing the current one?
35 gates would be ideal for MSY's future needs.
35 gates would be ideal for MSY's future needs.
Posted on 8/2/16 at 4:24 pm to Reservoir dawg
quote:
Does anyone have renderings of this project? Is this terminal replacing the current one?
Posted on 8/2/16 at 4:24 pm to Reservoir dawg
quote:
Does anyone have renderings of this project?
quote:
Is this terminal replacing the current one?
No, it's being built on the north side of the airport with a new entrance/exit via Loyola/Vets/I-10
Posted on 8/2/16 at 4:34 pm to Reservoir dawg
Yes, it's going to replace the current one. The old one will be used for office space and general aviation.
LINK
LINK
Posted on 8/2/16 at 4:51 pm to Golfer
I just noticed the parking garage separating the terminal and hotel. It's not in the older drawings and I never paid attention to it until just now.
Posted on 8/2/16 at 5:03 pm to Guess
So this is a perfect example of an airport planning question. As Golfer mentioned earlier, the current layout has 33 gates, but split among three concourses limiting flexibility.
Assuming 30 gates in the new facility, you would want to understand what the demand on facilities would be on the average day of the peak month (typically your 90-95 percentile). In 2016, that was May 8th, with 150 scheduled departures. Assuming a fully capable common use facility (similar to AUS and the new terminal at RDU) where airlines share gates, you would have 30 gates to share among the carriers. The common industry metric is 8 turns per day, or flights occupying a gate. As a baseline the facility capacity would be 240 flights day.
In the near term this is likely an aggressive assumption as airlines will schedule based on their operational needs not the availability of gates. As gates become a constraint the airport will need to implement some kind of allocation process to prioritize existing (and new) service until capacity comes on line.
In the Europe and Asia, where this is a common practice, it is not unheard of to get 10 turns from a gate. This despite very peaky bank structures for connections.
A quick look at the 2015 FAA Terminal Area Forecast for MSY
LINK
A ratio of the peak to annual activity at MSY would imply that the airport would not hit 223 departures per day until 2040.
Lots of flexibility here, and while during the peak of the peak the airport might have to make some adjustments, the general rule of thumb is to plan to the 90-95 percentile and accept some level of service degradation on the 3-5 days when it truly blows past design.
Assuming 30 gates in the new facility, you would want to understand what the demand on facilities would be on the average day of the peak month (typically your 90-95 percentile). In 2016, that was May 8th, with 150 scheduled departures. Assuming a fully capable common use facility (similar to AUS and the new terminal at RDU) where airlines share gates, you would have 30 gates to share among the carriers. The common industry metric is 8 turns per day, or flights occupying a gate. As a baseline the facility capacity would be 240 flights day.
In the near term this is likely an aggressive assumption as airlines will schedule based on their operational needs not the availability of gates. As gates become a constraint the airport will need to implement some kind of allocation process to prioritize existing (and new) service until capacity comes on line.
In the Europe and Asia, where this is a common practice, it is not unheard of to get 10 turns from a gate. This despite very peaky bank structures for connections.
A quick look at the 2015 FAA Terminal Area Forecast for MSY
LINK
A ratio of the peak to annual activity at MSY would imply that the airport would not hit 223 departures per day until 2040.
Lots of flexibility here, and while during the peak of the peak the airport might have to make some adjustments, the general rule of thumb is to plan to the 90-95 percentile and accept some level of service degradation on the 3-5 days when it truly blows past design.
Posted on 8/2/16 at 5:09 pm to SM6
quote:
Lots of flexibility here, and while during the peak of the peak the airport might have to make some adjustments, the general rule of thumb is to plan to the 90-95 percentile and accept some level of service degradation on the 3-5 days when it truly blows past design.
Those 3-5 days in DCA or ORD when a gate isn't available truly suck, that's where the tarmac delays of 3 hours usually come into effect. I think it's a completely different case for MSY, but we can hope they have a contingency plan in place (maybe a few shuttle buses for remote parking in case there's severe tstorms and planes can't depart the gates faster than planes are arriving).
Posted on 8/2/16 at 7:58 pm to SM6
Thanks for explaining. This is what I was getting at. Gates are like tables in a restaurant. Place may only have 30 tables but if they can turn them 5 times a day, its potentially more revenue than a place with 60 tables that only turns them twice a day.
This post was edited on 8/3/16 at 6:46 am
Posted on 8/2/16 at 9:16 pm to BlackenedOut
quote:
ts potentially more revenue than a place with 0 tables
Sounds pretty hip
Posted on 8/3/16 at 8:41 pm to Guess
Beautiful renderings. That'll be the nicest building in the region once completed.
Posted on 8/4/16 at 9:52 am to Guess
Found a construction timeline:
quote:
Jan. 4, 2016 -- Construction begins
April 4-7, 2016 -- Pile-driving begins
June 9, 2016 -- Terminal structural steel erection begins
Jan. 19, 2017 -- Terminal curtain wall construction begins
Feb. 9, 2017 -- Parking garage construction begins
May 3, 2017 -- Construction starts on exterior skin of terminal
March 2, 2018 -- Parking garage finishes
Oct. 1, 2018 -- Terminal opens for operation
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