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re: Title IX the reason the USA is a women's but not a men's power...
Posted on 7/6/15 at 2:01 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
Posted on 7/6/15 at 2:01 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
quote:
If i thought the system we had in place had a chance in hell of ever making the USA a consistent international soccer power, I'd have written a different thread. I don't.
The problem is that you're suggesting amping up the system as it is. You essentially want a steroid injection for a broken leg. Yeah, it might help some, but it definitely is a minor, non-essential, step. US soccer is helping rebuild the system from pay-to-play in hopes your investment results in a college scholarship to the better system where clubs foot the bill for players in hopes of building their next future star. You're vastly overestimating how the growth of college would help interest.
0
Posted on 7/6/15 at 2:05 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
He's been told this multiple times and still doesn't get it.
He's not here to learn stuff. He's here to prove he's right. Which is going to be difficult.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 2:07 pm to StraightCashHomey21
Some people especially in the south can't over the collegiate sports mentality. Their entire view of sports is viewed through the prism of college sports so they can't comprehend any other way.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 2:09 pm to thesoccerfanjax
quote:
Some people especially in the south can't over the collegiate sports mentality. Their entire view of sports is viewed through the prism of college sports so they can't comprehend any other way.
You are operating with a wide fricking lense there... Not wise.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 2:16 pm to pvilleguru
quote:
quote:
It has to start somewhere.
We already have a start. Here's an article from December detailing some changes that will be coming. LINK
Add those changes to what MLS is currently doing and you will see improvements in just a few year
I think we're already reaping the rewards. The national team pool gets deeper every year. It'll just take a bit before we pop out a messi or ronaldo
Posted on 7/6/15 at 2:18 pm to Broski
quote:
You are operating with a wide fricking lense there... Not wise.
Well in general the soccer culture in the south is not a big or educated as other parts of the country. Lots of that can be pointed to bc the stigma of playing soccer or being a soccer fan.
The SB here is probably the most well traveled board and we have lots of people who don't live in the part of the country they grew up in.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 2:21 pm to Broski
Well...am I wrong?
And. Notice I said some, not most or all.
And. Notice I said some, not most or all.
This post was edited on 7/6/15 at 2:22 pm
Posted on 7/6/15 at 2:30 pm to thesoccerfanjax
Jesus how are we rehashing this shite yet again? Oh yeah, i know. International tourney, casual fans shows up, claims to know how to fix everything.
It's like they think no one has ever discussed this stuff before.
It's like they think no one has ever discussed this stuff before.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 2:37 pm to BleedPurpleGold
quote:
Jesus how are we rehashing this shite yet again? Oh yeah, i know. International tourney, casual fans shows up, claims to know how to fix everything.
It's like they think no one has ever discussed this stuff before.
If you didn't like the content, you didn't have to read any of it. Always whining....
Posted on 7/6/15 at 2:44 pm to SouthOfSouth
quote:
If you didn't like the content, you didn't have to read any of it. Always whining....
The lengths you go to to get me to play FIFA are adorable. Groupme stalking, TD stalking......
I'm going to have to block your phone calls soon enough.
This post was edited on 7/6/15 at 2:45 pm
Posted on 7/6/15 at 3:10 pm to BleedPurpleGold
The key to men's soccer is getting them to go pro early. As early as 15. You can have kids go to high school during the day and then focus on soccer as a club and then to minor leagues in Europe and the US.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 3:18 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
The key to men's soccer is getting them to go pro early
By "go pro", you mean get them in a club's youth academy, right?
Surely, you aren't expecting more Freddy Adu scenarios?
Posted on 7/6/15 at 3:37 pm to Broski
quote:
By "go pro", you mean get them in a club's youth academy, right?
Yes, NCAA soccer just doesn't work for men like it does for women. Clubs are the way to go. But I don't blame Freddy for taking the money by going pro.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 3:41 pm to Broski
What would really grow the youth focus bandwagon is half the mls players making a few million a year.
If you could make Dempsey level money just by being top 100 in our country, some of the focus would definitely shift.
Our system is growing and is doing what it needs to do to slowly change. We would love for it to be faster but that's not possible at this point.
If you could make Dempsey level money just by being top 100 in our country, some of the focus would definitely shift.
Our system is growing and is doing what it needs to do to slowly change. We would love for it to be faster but that's not possible at this point.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 3:54 pm to Broski
First time ever on the soccer board but yesterday's game had me coming over here to take a peak. I am not a soccer person, my passion is hockey, though I played football in college. Hockey and soccer are similar in this country in that they are more tertiary sports.
I read this thread and everybody bashing on the guy about his thoughts about getting more colleges to offer soccer. The guy championing college soccer has something right, while it may not be the best way to develop elite players it will keep boys in the game and trying to achieve a higher level. I don't know what to think but I do know as a parent I am not signing up for the pro soccer or bust mentality. We just don't have the culture here for that. It just doesn't seem like a tangible dream. So to build an entire national soccer program on a professional or bust design just seems so foreign to me as an American.
With my background, the correlation I draw from in the hockey world is envisioning something like the Canadian Junior Hockey (juniors being U20 leagues that have players as young as 15 in them)system. I think soccer could learn something from hockey. There are several different paths an American born hockey player can take to reach elite levels depending on where you live. Some go through the high schools systems like in Minnesota and then through college. Some play AAA club hockey, then American juniors, then college. Others go from high school/club to Canadian juniors. There is no single path, just an overriding goal by USA Hockey to get more kids playing hockey, to increase the base of the pyramid.
Playing at a higher level is something tangible for those in the hockey community. Heck, from my playing days 20 some years ago I know 2 guys I played against that went on to the NHL and I grew up on the same teams with two guys that played in college...and I am from freaking Iowa. I know that when I watch my kid play in hockey tournaments there are future NHLers on other teams. Heck, I am saving the programs to see how things turn out in 10 years and just how many pro hockey players he's skated against.
Jonathon Toews is a Canadian kid that enrolls in an American prep school, plays college hockey at North Dakota, and ends up as the captain of the Chicago Blackhawks. Patrick Kane is an American kid that plays AAA club hockey, then Canadian juniors (instead of college) and ends up on the same team as Toews and they win 3 Stanley Cups together.
In case you are wondering about comparables between the two sports, I would argue it takes more skill and hours of skill development to play hockey than most any other sport. Between skating, and I mean skating like a pro, stickhandling, shooting, hockey sense (game awareness), etc. It is possible to achieve an elite level going through the college route in a sport like hockey. Maybe a somewhat similar, multi-tiered system is something that could work for soccer. There could be a college track and a parallel pro/academy track.
Bottom line is if you tell me pro or bust, as a parent, my kid is probably going to be switching to baseball, basketball, or some other sport by the age of 10-12. A professional soccer career is just not something that people in America can envision, it's not in our culture to have goals like that, there needs to be a fall back plan that involves education. You need to set things up that work in our system, culturally, and then modify things from there. If you want the masses to play the game then you need to present it in a way they understand our American world works.
I read this thread and everybody bashing on the guy about his thoughts about getting more colleges to offer soccer. The guy championing college soccer has something right, while it may not be the best way to develop elite players it will keep boys in the game and trying to achieve a higher level. I don't know what to think but I do know as a parent I am not signing up for the pro soccer or bust mentality. We just don't have the culture here for that. It just doesn't seem like a tangible dream. So to build an entire national soccer program on a professional or bust design just seems so foreign to me as an American.
With my background, the correlation I draw from in the hockey world is envisioning something like the Canadian Junior Hockey (juniors being U20 leagues that have players as young as 15 in them)system. I think soccer could learn something from hockey. There are several different paths an American born hockey player can take to reach elite levels depending on where you live. Some go through the high schools systems like in Minnesota and then through college. Some play AAA club hockey, then American juniors, then college. Others go from high school/club to Canadian juniors. There is no single path, just an overriding goal by USA Hockey to get more kids playing hockey, to increase the base of the pyramid.
Playing at a higher level is something tangible for those in the hockey community. Heck, from my playing days 20 some years ago I know 2 guys I played against that went on to the NHL and I grew up on the same teams with two guys that played in college...and I am from freaking Iowa. I know that when I watch my kid play in hockey tournaments there are future NHLers on other teams. Heck, I am saving the programs to see how things turn out in 10 years and just how many pro hockey players he's skated against.
Jonathon Toews is a Canadian kid that enrolls in an American prep school, plays college hockey at North Dakota, and ends up as the captain of the Chicago Blackhawks. Patrick Kane is an American kid that plays AAA club hockey, then Canadian juniors (instead of college) and ends up on the same team as Toews and they win 3 Stanley Cups together.
In case you are wondering about comparables between the two sports, I would argue it takes more skill and hours of skill development to play hockey than most any other sport. Between skating, and I mean skating like a pro, stickhandling, shooting, hockey sense (game awareness), etc. It is possible to achieve an elite level going through the college route in a sport like hockey. Maybe a somewhat similar, multi-tiered system is something that could work for soccer. There could be a college track and a parallel pro/academy track.
Bottom line is if you tell me pro or bust, as a parent, my kid is probably going to be switching to baseball, basketball, or some other sport by the age of 10-12. A professional soccer career is just not something that people in America can envision, it's not in our culture to have goals like that, there needs to be a fall back plan that involves education. You need to set things up that work in our system, culturally, and then modify things from there. If you want the masses to play the game then you need to present it in a way they understand our American world works.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 4:01 pm to SoDakHawk
quote:
Jonathon Toews is a Canadian kid that enrolls in an American prep school, plays college hockey at North Dakota, and ends up as the captain of the Chicago Blackhawks. Patrick Kane is an American kid that plays AAA club hockey, then Canadian juniors (instead of college) and ends up on the same team as Toews and they win 3 Stanley Cups together.
College Hockey and Canadian Jr's are comparable in terms of level of competition.
College soccer is not even close to on par with 18-21 year old Europeans play.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 4:04 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
Because by the time college comes around
I'm getting really tired of repeating it's not about college players...this thread has become less about soccer and more about the failures of modern American education. Especially in regards to reading comprehension.
I'm going to take the high road here and not list the number of posters in this thread that repeatedly made posts about "college players", despite repeat attempts to tell them otherwise.
Maybe if I put it into simpler words, for a simpler audience..it's not about the destination, it's about the journey.
quote:
Bottom line is if you tell me pro or bust, as a parent, my kid is probably going to be switching to baseball, basketball, or some other sport by the age of 10-12.
This is the whole point of the thread.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 4:10 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
quote:
Bottom line is if you tell me pro or bust, as a parent, my kid is probably going to be switching to baseball, basketball, or some other sport by the age of 10-12.
That is pretty stupid. Do you have any idea how many professional soccer players there are in the world. By far the most. Chances of being a pro are better than any other sport. You don't have to be a physical freak to be great.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 4:11 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
[quote] Bottom line is if you tell me pro or bust, as a parent, my kid is probably going to be switching to baseball, basketball, or some other sport by the age of 10-12.
This is the whole point of the thread. [/guote]
Your OP
[] It may be, with rising amounts of money from conference networks, that men's soccer is added at more schools. Even so, it would probably take at least a decade for men's soccer participation to grow to the level of women's programs. Maybe then, the US men will become more of a force to be reckoned with in the world of soccer. [/]
Seems to me like you started this thread completely about title IX and collegiate soccer. You then have changed course, with no clear purpose whatsoever when the idea of male college soccer helping grow the nation as force in male international soccer was repeatedly shot down.
This is the whole point of the thread. [/guote]
Your OP
[] It may be, with rising amounts of money from conference networks, that men's soccer is added at more schools. Even so, it would probably take at least a decade for men's soccer participation to grow to the level of women's programs. Maybe then, the US men will become more of a force to be reckoned with in the world of soccer. [/]
Seems to me like you started this thread completely about title IX and collegiate soccer. You then have changed course, with no clear purpose whatsoever when the idea of male college soccer helping grow the nation as force in male international soccer was repeatedly shot down.
This post was edited on 7/6/15 at 4:35 pm
Posted on 7/6/15 at 4:12 pm to SoDakHawk
quote:
Bottom line is if you tell me pro or bust, as a parent, my kid is probably going to be switching to baseball, basketball, or some other sport by the age of 10-12.
Ok, but that is what it will take to be a very good soccer player.
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