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2
Posted on 7/6/15 at 6:08 pm to Tiger Phil
quote:
What the heck is that supposed to mean?
If you think college soccer is a good thing, then you shouldn't be helping to develop kids.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 6:10 pm to Tiger Phil
Truth be told, the concept is very attractive (just not viable).
Posted on 7/6/15 at 6:16 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
What the heck is that supposed to mean?quote:
If you think college soccer is a good thing, then you shouldn't be helping to develop kids.
You have got to be kidding me. That really pisses me off and not on just a "you're and internet bully and its funny to pick on people from behind a keyboard", but more like I wonder why you believe you can make such a judgment about another's career and vocation with such little information. What arrogance!
You do understand that this is a complex issue, and one that we as a nation have been unable to solve for the last 30 or so years in which we have been serious about soccer? There might be room for discussion on this topic. There might be more than one approach.
And also, heaven forbid that I encourage the 60 or so young men I have in my care each year to strive to continue to play the sport they love beyond their high school years. In five years, I have yet to coach a player that has gone on to play for a professional club. But yeah, I should stop being a high school coach because it doesn't jive with your tiny view of how the elite American soccer player can become more elite. Wow.
This post was edited on 7/6/15 at 6:18 pm
Posted on 7/6/15 at 6:17 pm to Dandy Lion
Yes, it would take a lot of people to change their thinking on the issue from a number of different angles. Did you read the article?
Posted on 7/6/15 at 6:17 pm to Tiger Phil
quote:
You have got to be kidding me. That really pisses me off and not on just a "you're and internet bully and its funny to pick on people from behind a keyboard", but more like I wonder why you believe you can make such a judgment about another's career and vocation with such little information. What arrogance!
Posted on 7/6/15 at 6:20 pm to TN Bhoy
Curious if we can have an intelligent discussion on this topic.
On what basis do you make such an assertion? What is your direct experience in the game? With high school kids?
On what basis do you make such an assertion? What is your direct experience in the game? With high school kids?
Posted on 7/6/15 at 6:29 pm to Tiger Phil
quote:
I am a high school soccer coach,
That is great and your service to molding young men is very commendable. But, our model will continue to produce just a few players of true international quality. We have over 300 million people and Spain, Portugal, Holland and Belgium have less than 100 million combined.. Their system works to produce top class players.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 6:36 pm to glassman
I think some of the arguments against moving towards the proven European model of developing players is good ol' American stubbornness.. an attitude that we have nothing to learn from anyone else and will just do it our way.
Fact is, the European development model works. It's proven... Pretty much all of the top players in the world came out of European style development programs and a number of those players were already winning national and international honors at an age when most of our top domestic players were studying for biology finals and hoping to get 10 hours a week on the training pitch.
Fact is, the European development model works. It's proven... Pretty much all of the top players in the world came out of European style development programs and a number of those players were already winning national and international honors at an age when most of our top domestic players were studying for biology finals and hoping to get 10 hours a week on the training pitch.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 6:43 pm to Tiger Phil
quote:
Financial viability of free training for elites. There is just not enough money in soccer in the USA right now to make this feasible. Ajax and Arsenal and Chelsea and Real Madrid can do it because they have the revenue to do so, but that sort of revenue does not exist at Sporting KC or Houston Dynamo, etc
False. A lot of the MLS teams are developing academies.
quote:
The facilities at colleges are superior to everything that a soccer player could experience shy of an MLS club in the USA.
That's nice, but if you are limited in usage of those facilities then it doesn't matter how pretty they are.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 6:49 pm to MustangReb
quote:
think some of the arguments against moving towards the proven European model of developing players is good ol' American stubbornness.. an attitude that we have nothing to learn from anyone else and will just do it our way.
This will be Klinsman's legacy. He changed Germany's process and look what happened. He isn't a very tactical manager, but he knows what needs to be done to move a national team forward.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 6:53 pm to glassman
quote:
This will be Klinsman's legacy. He changed Germany's process and look what happened. He isn't a very tactical manager, but he knows what needs to be done to move a national team forward.
Bingo.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 7:34 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
quote:You keep saying this, but where can you not find a ton of high school teams?
And the trickle down effect from more college soccer programs begetting more high school and grammar school programs,
And yet again, it only helped the women's team because we were the only country that had girls that were playing.
This post was edited on 7/6/15 at 7:37 pm
Posted on 7/6/15 at 8:10 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
quote:
Our problems start with the best possible players not playing soccer to begin with.
This is such an American argument. Athleticism is not the the most important aspect of the sport. Do you argue the same for golf? Just because it means everything to basketball and football does not mean it means everything to sports in general.
Messi - small and skinny
Robben - average height, average build
Suarez - average height, average build
Neymar - skinny, average height
Pirlo - average height, slow, average build
Aguero - tiny, average build
Sanchez - even tinier (literally tiny at 5'7), skinny
Iniesta - also 5'7, no muscle at all
Xavi - also 5'7, no muscle
David Silva - short, has the build of a 6 year old
James - average build, slightly above average height
Lampard - fat, slow
Cazorla - holy shite this guy is actually 5'5. 5'5!!!
Mata - another 5'7 elf, unremarkable muscles
Fabregas - average height, dad bod
Coutinho - a midget, looks like a starving child
As you can see, there's no Lebrons here. No Andrew Lucks. No Kobe's. Now tell me how many top soccer players in the world are "athletic?" Sure there are a few, but my point is, the more successful and more important players on teams are the opposite of what we define as athletic. Technicality is something fostered in young players. The USA will never, ever, ever, win a world cup if we depend on the Jozy Altidore's of the world.
I really, desperately wish people would stop coming out of the woodwork with this argument. Its a recipe for a terrible team in the modern game. You know what other soccer team has historically depended on pure athleticism? England. lol. The biggest shitter of the bed in the history of the game.
This post was edited on 7/6/15 at 8:12 pm
Posted on 7/6/15 at 8:30 pm to BleedPurpleGold
Your point is good but I think you're tending towards equating athleticism with freakish physical traits.
My biggest observation of the physical build of most world class soccer players is that they tend to be very average. You have some outliers that are quite tall but most tend to be in the "average male height" category... weights also tend to be pretty "average"... in fact, they often tend to slot right into the "normal weight" range if you calculate their BMI.
But, having a freakish physical build doesn't make someone more athletic. Lionel Messi is the definition of "average" physically... until he starts running. He's not blazing fast but his agility and ability to change directions would make most NFL running backs jealous.
The real point, though, is that we don't need our country's "best athletes" (as defined by their performance in sports that aren't soccer like football, basketball, etc) to field a top class soccer team... we need great soccer players... and great soccer players are developed, not born.
My biggest observation of the physical build of most world class soccer players is that they tend to be very average. You have some outliers that are quite tall but most tend to be in the "average male height" category... weights also tend to be pretty "average"... in fact, they often tend to slot right into the "normal weight" range if you calculate their BMI.
But, having a freakish physical build doesn't make someone more athletic. Lionel Messi is the definition of "average" physically... until he starts running. He's not blazing fast but his agility and ability to change directions would make most NFL running backs jealous.
The real point, though, is that we don't need our country's "best athletes" (as defined by their performance in sports that aren't soccer like football, basketball, etc) to field a top class soccer team... we need great soccer players... and great soccer players are developed, not born.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 8:40 pm to MustangReb
That was literally exactly my point. 
I listed all of those players as proof that claiming our best (traditional athletic concept) players are playing other sports is laughable. This is how most Americans see it. We don't need innate physical talent. We need groomed technicality. You teach that, you aren't born with it.
I listed all of those players as proof that claiming our best (traditional athletic concept) players are playing other sports is laughable. This is how most Americans see it. We don't need innate physical talent. We need groomed technicality. You teach that, you aren't born with it.
This post was edited on 7/6/15 at 8:41 pm
Posted on 7/6/15 at 8:52 pm to BleedPurpleGold
Sanchez would be an all-state running back in lower class football. He is a fricking freak.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 9:02 pm to glassman
quote:
Sanchez would be an all-state running back in lower class football. He is a fricking freak.
Sanchez is as skinny as I am and SHORTER than I am.
Yes, shorter.
I know.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 9:05 pm to BleedPurpleGold
Sanchez is kinda ripped, huh?
Posted on 7/6/15 at 9:38 pm to TFTC
I didn't think so. His arms certainly aren't. I guess he has A-cup boobs though? Kind of hard to miss them in that body paint he wears.
Regardless, he's 5'6 according to Wikipedia. 5'7 according to google. Dude doesn't rely on brute strength or size. He relies on his incredible technical ability that was learned from a lifetime of training.
Regardless, he's 5'6 according to Wikipedia. 5'7 according to google. Dude doesn't rely on brute strength or size. He relies on his incredible technical ability that was learned from a lifetime of training.
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