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Started By
Message
re: The ADHD Fallacy: It’s Time To Stop Treating Childhood as a Disease
Posted on 4/25/15 at 10:19 am to The First Cut
Posted on 4/25/15 at 10:19 am to The First Cut
You can thank the private schools for sending the moms to work.
Also the constant stimulation of childrens brains with tv, video, and other gadgets
is dangerous, let alone all the processed, quick foods we eat because mom is working.
Also the constant stimulation of childrens brains with tv, video, and other gadgets
is dangerous, let alone all the processed, quick foods we eat because mom is working.
This post was edited on 4/25/15 at 10:27 am
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Posted on 4/25/15 at 10:19 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
and this is my meta-social worry. male characteristics are being medicated and socialized out of society
This is also tangential to ADHD diagnoses. Hyperactive kids are easier to spot and diagnose. Inattentive kids often suffer silently (people communicating that they should be trying harder doesn't help). This has little to do with a desire to medicate maleness out of society.
Posted on 4/25/15 at 10:23 am to emmanuellewis
quote:
Recognizing the disorder is an early step (as you stated) but that alone is not enough
i didn't say it was enough. you have to develop a plan and execute the plan
quote:
"Riding it out" is not a viable solution for most people with ADHD or depression
i did. with both.
quote:
Recognition does not solve the issues that people face.
i didn't say recognition did. that's the first step. the second step is setting up a way to live around the issues
now there are some EXTREME examples of both, but they're very, very rare.
depression is a bad comparison though b/c over-medicating people with depression is different for 2 reasons. 1st, depression has legitimate concerns over health. 2nd, SSRIs don't give unfair academic and work advantages like speed.
the main issue with over-medicating people with SSRIs is the increased risk of suicide with disruption in the meds (which is why i refuse to start that process personally)
Posted on 4/25/15 at 10:25 am to VanCleef
Disallow MDs who take 1 course on psychological disorders from prescribing kids based on an interview with the parent and a 3 minute observation in their office and a huge part of the over-medicating issue will be solved.
Posted on 4/25/15 at 10:27 am to emmanuellewis
quote:
This has little to do with a desire to medicate maleness out of society.
over-diagnosing does exactly this
we have a desire to medicate...in this instance, medicate male characteristics out of society. activeness and aggression are bad (tools of the patriarchy and what not), so male children are being over-diagnosed with a disease they don't have.
i'm not saying that some of these males aren't ADD, but the vast majority of the diagnosed kids aren't (or aren't bad enough to require medication). but these piece of shite psychologists/doctors and helicopter parents want their kids addicted to speed for the academic benefits, so they're fine with over-diagnosing the problem.
the requirements for being medicated for ADD should be a lot more objective and stringent. the herd needs to be culled a great deal
Posted on 4/25/15 at 10:29 am to staugslugga
quote:
Disallow MDs who take 1 course on psychological disorders from prescribing kids based on an interview with the parent and a 3 minute observation in their office and a huge part of the over-medicating issue will be solved.
i agree
we need similar regulations like the ones that shut down the pain pill mills. a good start is licensing requirements to prescribe the meds. a more objective definition for medication is also needed. we need to define this disorder in terms of chemistry and not observation
Posted on 4/25/15 at 10:31 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i did. with both.
Its great that it worked for you, but you are not the entire population with these disorders. A diagnosis is a collection of traits; expression of these traits vary from case to case. Just because it worked for you does not mean it works for everyone with these diagnoses.
quote:
i didn't say recognition did. that's the first step. the second step is setting up a way to live around the issues
"Setting up a way to live around the issues" is vague. If you are referring to behavioral plans then I would disagree and say that the second step depends on the individual case. For some, this would be behavioral modification, for others medication, others a different type of therapy, and so on.
quote:
now there are some EXTREME examples of both, but they're very, very rare
Not sure what you mean by extreme. Different from yours? Probably not that rare.
The unfair school/work advantage that you are hung up on is just odd. Are you arguing people should not be treated with medication because of this?
Posted on 4/25/15 at 10:35 am to sicboy
quote:
Maybe we can jump the gun on diagnosis, but it's very real. We're fairly certain our daughter has it
Just went through this with my son. He wasn't hyper and had no behavior problems. Just couldn't focus. We have seen a dramatic improvement in grades immediately. He's in second grade. We were very hesitant at first but he is on a low dose and we haven't seen any of the side effects. We only give it to him on school days. He's on Vyvanse.
This post was edited on 4/25/15 at 10:44 am
Posted on 4/25/15 at 10:36 am to emmanuellewis
quote:
Its great that it worked for you, but you are not the entire population with these disorders.
i didn't say that i was, but if it can be done, then it can be done.
quote:
A diagnosis is a collection of traits; expression of these traits vary from case to case. Just because it worked for you does not mean it works for everyone with these diagnoses.
i understand this. i often wonder just how amazing my academics would be had i cheated my way through life
in the same veign, it makes me wonder how inflated were the credentials of my pill-popping peers
quote:
For some, this would be behavioral modification, for others medication, others a different type of therapy, and so on.
for like 99% of cases, behaviorism would be fine. it requires too much work (esp from lazy parents) and doesn't come with speed, though
you honestly fail to realize how big of a draw the speed is to this. parents mold children to the traits necessary to get legal speed
quote:
The unfair school/work advantage that you are hung up on is just odd. Are you arguing people should not be treated with medication because of this?
no i clearly said that if some kids are allowed speed, then all kids should be allowed access to speed
if you give the parents access to what they really want (speed), then we won't even have to deal with the fake diagnoses
you'll see a return to a much closer diagnosis rate to reality
Posted on 4/25/15 at 10:36 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
over-diagnosing does exactly this
we have a desire to medicate...in this instance, medicate male characteristics out of society. activeness and aggression are bad (tools of the patriarchy and what not), so male children are being over-diagnosed with a disease they don't have.
i'm not saying that some of these males aren't ADD, but the vast majority of the diagnosed kids aren't (or aren't bad enough to require medication). but these piece of shite psychologists/doctors and helicopter parents want their kids addicted to speed for the academic benefits, so they're fine with over-diagnosing the problem.
It seems like you are trying to fit ADHD into something that you hyper focused on (reduction of male characteristics). I think you are oversimplifying the problem. The third paragraph reads like a conspiracy theory.
Posted on 4/25/15 at 10:38 am to emmanuellewis
quote:
It seems like you are trying to fit ADHD into something that you hyper focused on (reduction of male characteristics)
no that's the addiction to speed
the feminist angle is secondary
quote:
The third paragraph reads like a conspiracy theory.
laziness and over-parenting is not a conspiracy theory
Posted on 4/25/15 at 10:44 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i didn't say that i was, but if it can be done, then it can be done
Not that simple. And you are basically contradicting yourself and saying here "I didn't say that I was, but we should apply what worked for me to everyone."
quote:
understand this. i often wonder just how amazing my academics would be had i cheated my way through life
in the same veign, it makes me wonder how inflated were the credentials of my pill-popping peers
This is your hang up, not societies. There are several good arguments against medication. Making you feel bad when you compare yourself to peers is not one of them.
quote:
for like 99% of cases, behaviorism would be fine. it requires too much work (esp from lazy parents) and doesn't come with speed, though
Not true (i.e., 99% of cases). This is just a blanket statement you are making. I don't disagree with everything you say here but you seem to be making an argument that parents are willfully giving their kids speed not to help them, but to either shut them up or provide academic advantages.
Posted on 4/25/15 at 10:45 am to SlowFlowPro
Whoops, missed this one.
Thats just as odd. So we should give everyone speed? Thats the argument you are making?
quote:
no i clearly said that if some kids are allowed speed, then all kids should be allowed access to speed
if you give the parents access to what they really want (speed), then we won't even have to deal with the fake diagnoses
you'll see a return to a much closer diagnosis rate to reality
Thats just as odd. So we should give everyone speed? Thats the argument you are making?
Posted on 4/25/15 at 10:51 am to emmanuellewis
quote:
And you are basically contradicting yourself and saying here "I didn't say that I was, but we should apply what worked for me to everyone."
no i' saying there are rare, extreme examples that require medication. we need a more stringent and objective system to diagnose these rare cases.
i also think that if speed is available to one, it should be available to all. you'll see the massive drop in diagnoses, confirming the above.
quote:
This is your hang up, not societies. There are several good arguments against medication. Making you feel bad when you compare yourself to peers is not one of them.
i graduated from LSU summa cum laude without meds. i don't feel bad
but it is a legitimate concern, especially when it's a felony for a "norm" to even possess the same ability-enhancing magic
i don't see how you can so casually dismiss their disadvantage. i'm not one of them and i'm promoting their interests
quote:
but you seem to be making an argument that parents are willfully giving their kids speed not to help them, but to either shut them up or provide academic advantages.
that is exactly what is going on
dude just go watch boards like this when BR gets low on addy. these kids are fricking addicted to it, and it's not all prescribed kids
if you give humans an incentive, they will adapt to that incentive. that's not a "conspiracy theory" as you said it earlier
Posted on 4/25/15 at 10:52 am to emmanuellewis
quote:
So we should give everyone speed? Thats the argument you are making?
as opposed to giving certain kids major advantages with having access to the speed? are you saying that's fair?
and i'm not saying we should give everyone speed. we should give everyone the option to have access to speed
note, i have the ability to get access and declined, so i'm not arguing for my personal interest(s)
This post was edited on 4/25/15 at 10:53 am
Posted on 4/25/15 at 11:05 am to EA6B
quote:You kidding me? Yall had kids that didn't sit still and failed school. Yall just called them dumbasses and bad kids. Nowadays, some still are true dumbasses and bad kids, but some are properly diagnosed and the medicine allows them to succeed.
I sat through 12 years of pubic school from 1960-72 with 30-35 other students in each class, we were expected to sit still and be quiet, it was very rare to have a student that did not control their behavior. Most people from the same era remember it the same way, what has caused the drastic change of behavior in todays ki
Posted on 4/25/15 at 11:11 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
no i' saying there are rare, extreme examples that require medication.
I don't think this statement is based in fact.
quote:
i also think that if speed is available to one, it should be available to all. you'll see the massive drop in diagnoses, confirming the above.
I disagree with your first sentence because I think the health risks outweigh whatever "academic advantages" speed provides. The second sentence is again speculation that has little evidence behind it.
quote:
but it is a legitimate concern, especially when it's a felony for a "norm" to even possess the same ability-enhancing magic
i don't see how you can so casually dismiss their disadvantage. i'm not one of them and i'm promoting their interests
Funny because I was going to write above how you seem to see speed as a magic potion for academics. I think you vastly overstate the effect of speed on academic performance.
Promoting non-ADHD people's interests? Are you out advocating for them?
quote:
that is exactly what is going on
dude just go watch boards like this when BR gets low on addy. these kids are fricking addicted to it, and it's not all prescribed kids
I don't think a message board is the best barometer for society. You seem to be making the argument that some (most?, all?) kids on ADHD medication have parents who are not concerned about the problems they are facing, but are trying to cheat the system to get their kid ahead in school. If this is your argument, I think it is misguided and not based in fact. Just because you can find some people on message boards to support your viewpoint, does not make it correct.
Also, the second sentence seems to argue against giving everyone access to stimulants.
Posted on 4/25/15 at 11:20 am to emmanuellewis
quote:
Funny because I was going to write above how you seem to see speed as a magic potion for academics. I think you vastly overstate the effect of speed on academic performance.
go hang around college campuses during finals and try to tell me this bullshite
quote:
You seem to be making the argument that some (most?, all?) kids on ADHD medication have parents who are not concerned about the problems they are facing, but are trying to cheat the system to get their kid ahead in school. If this is your argument, I think it is misguided and not based in fact.
it's a great substitute for actual parenting. plus you're creating the incentive, and the parents see this. they see kid-x go from a C to A student with the meds and know their kid can go from B to A. if they don't get their kid on meds, then kid-x, with speed, will be an A student while their kid remains a B student. so you HAVE to get them on meds to keep up.
hence the "cheat code" comments i made initially in this thread. the system is unworkable unless everyone is given the access
quote:
I think the health risks outweigh whatever "academic advantages" speed provides.
that's rich in a thread where you're promoting using that very same medication on ADD students. their health isn't as important?
quote:
Also, the second sentence seems to argue against giving everyone access to stimulants.
i believe we all should bear responsibility for our actions, including whatever drugs we ingest
Posted on 4/25/15 at 11:22 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
no i' saying there are rare, extreme examples that require medication. we need a more stringent and objective system to diagnose these rare cases.
The reality is that environmental factors have trained the brains of ADHD children to have short attention spans. Those factors are believed to be children under 3 watching hours upon hours of TV and movies with rapid scene changes like we commonly find today. Their brains are still developing while this is happening and, as I stated previously, are are being trained to this rapid change. There are limited ways to detect this now. It would require brain imaging during various activities to see how the brain is reacting.
Posted on 4/25/15 at 11:22 am to SlowFlowPro
They should sell vyvanse over the table. Our university scores would increase tremendously.
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