re: Serial ... Is Adnan Syed Guilty?

Criminal and true murder

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There's a huge "motive gap" for any other explanation of him knowing where Hae's abandoned car was OTHER than 1) Adnan did it or 2) the cops framed Adnan by pressuring Jay into his coached confessions.

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Listen to the undisclosed podcast and you will see just how poor the whole investigation and case was. The detectives themselves have done some messed up things in past cases. Very corrupt stuff.

He probably did it, but he also shouldn't have been convicted.

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It's the only logical conclusion in my mind. Every other possible killer takes 10x as many mental hoops to jump through to come to the conclusion that it was that person who killed her.

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But that's the problem with the investigation; they only looked into one person so we only have that narrow-minded investigation.

I mean they didn't even take the time to get the phone numbers for incoming calls, which would either verify or dispute half their case. The detectives were so lazy and corrupt that they have sent multiple innocent people away.

In one case, after charging someone else with murder (who was convicted for decades), a person they were investigating earlier offered a confession for the murder. One of the detectives (maybe Ritz) decided it wasn't credible, but later it was verified thay the confessor was the actual murderer.

I mean they've lied about witness testimony, continuously used the same criminal informant in prison (and links about it), who happened to hear "multiple" confessions from fellow prisoners. These resultes in convictions of people who were later proven innocent.

How can we trust any of the evidence when we know how poor the investigation was and how notoriously bad the detectives were?

Can't agree more

The Undisclosed podcast has been tough to sludge through BUT their evidence has been very well presented.

I was an ADA for 4 years and a USA for 2 years and can tell you in my experience the evidence to convict Adnan, particularly the cell phone tower evidence, was ludicrous from the jump, borderline 1883 suit worthy.

There is no corroboration to Jay's testimony, at all, and he changed his story under oath four times. He was coached to make the timeline match. Even a proper autopsy of Hae proves she was likely not even killed on the whole DAY the prosecution claims. Also, Serial touched on the amount of Muslim influence the conviction had, but if you read/listen to the prosecutions open and closing, over 16 of the 22 minutes in the 2nd trial is explaining why this is ok in the Muslim cultures. Gutierrez didn't even try to point out the ridiculousness of it.

I cannot tell you why Jay lied, other than to cover his arse/other acquittances asses for other crimes. But there is no way Adnan should have been convicted of murder 1.

Great Serial Parody from SNL

A must watch. It's spot on.

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I tried to listen to undisclosed but it is so incredibly biased it is hard to listen to.

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Can you please give an example of bias?

I don't see how anyone can listen to Undisclosed and come away with anything other than:

1)absolutely there was a reasonable doubt
2)there's a good chance Adnan was wholly uninvolved

On Episode 9, they spend an hour reviewing past cases of the scumbag detectives'. It's not hard to imagine AT ALL, them simply deciding Adnan was the guy and then confirmation-biasing their way to the result they got.

Their ENTIRE case was the following 2 points:

1)Jay's "testimony"
2)Cellphone "evidence"

#1 was proven by Undisclosed to be absolute, coached garbage (literally, they identified tapping noises on the interview tapes where it's clear the detectives were signaling Jay) in which not a single of his many versions EVER makes internal sense.

#2 was proven by Undisclosed to be absolute garbage - and, if anything, actually exculpatory for Adnan when used properly.

Further, basically not a single element of the state's timeline comports with reality. And the detectives didn't do the easy work in 1999. No, that was left to 3 podcasting attorneys 16 years later. It's embarrassing and egregious.

My opinion is that Jenn better start lawyering up. I think she was complicit with Jay in whatever happened.

You should at least listen to the episode on bail. Somebody from the state needs to go to prison for a long time for that bit of scumbaggery. I hope Urick gets put away too.

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it is way better than Serial. Way more information.

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To the point that I'm pissed at Sarah Koenig for doing such a lousy job with Serial.

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So what's their theory on how they were able to get any confession out of Jay at all? They bust Jay on pot and solely on that they blackmail him into creating a confession about being Adnan's accomplice completely out of thin air?

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Um, no they blackmail him over being the accomplice.

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he was involved at some point in covering up Hae's murder

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Right.

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As he didn't know Hae at all, his only point of connection to her was Adnan

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Not true. His golden girl girlfriend, Stephanie, was friends with Hae. There are some theories that say Stephanie knew that he was stepping out and was going to tell Hae.

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What I'm saying is that Jay had to be someone's accomplice. Once you accept that Jay was someone's accomplice, then you have to ask WHOSE? Well, the only person who even remotely fits that bill is Adnan.

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He most certainly did not have to be anyone's accomplice. He could have done it himself. shite, Jenn hated Hae and Jay was way friendly with her.